I haven't heard all the particulars about this yet, only that the police found and shot him. I know a lot of people are thinking that this is a good thing, that it'll save taxpayers a ton of money and that the streets will be safer now that he's dead. But this is wrong on so many levels. First, what right did the police have to be jury and judge? Second, even if the people in the restaurant picked him out from mug shots they could've be wrong. Third, how would any of us feel if one of our relatives was falsely identified as being a murderer and instead of the police knocking on their door and arresting them - they just shot them. And fourth, apparently the man had been acting more and more deranged in the past few weeks, so the solution for anyone in this condition that kills people is to shoot them? (sigh) I've been friends with cops, and I know how they look out for their own, but this is way out of line. Sorry Annie, I hope we can be friends and still disagree.
Well that's more than I had heard up until now. Even so, the cops would only have had the right to shoot him if it was in self defense, or to protect one of their fellow officers. Otherwise it was their own way of handing out their own judgment. Which is scary.
We can disagree any old time. No worries my dear. Twice in the past 10 years I have had my heart in my throat because someone had killed cops here and I couldn't get hold of Randy for hours. In real easy to understand terms, if you shoot cops, they get to shoot back. (You didn't really think the guy stood a chance of living, did you)?
I woke Randy up to tell him and he was more than pleased. That is only as it should be.
If this freak would have shot 4 little kids, the outcome would be the very same, and I do not think many would object. (Well except for those who actually would brave the elements and acknowledge even knowing him)
Sweet RT; That too is only as it should be. And I am thinking criminals SHOULD BE scared of the cops anyway. (Sorry, but you won't get any compassion from me for this dead and useless body). He was dead the minute he decided to do this- That is called, "Suicide by Cop."
I think this isn't about judgement, this guy was a threat too many and not just cops. His history old and new had proven it. Left alone, we would hurt more and had to be stopped. He choose his end when he chose not to turn himself in. He had a gun, he was asked to stop, he didn't, he was a threat, they shot. This is a legal judgement given to cops.
Ever hear of suicide by police? This almost sounds like it.I have a grandson that is finishing his four year degree in criminal justice. He is working as a city policeman part time, hopefully in a safe little town. The fact is,he knows going in what the potential dangers are and is willing to accept them. I honor all honest law enforcement
I have heard that 40% of all crimes occur in the city. Guess where the other 60% are? At any rate, there are no 'safety zones' when you are wearing the uniform. He just needs to learn- (And once he gets past that, he can retire).
I have two views on this topic...the first has said from the moment the manhunt began that he would not live to be brought to trial...there are some police out there who prefer to take the law into their own hands and I can't say I blame them... the courts are notoriously too lax in punishing criminals to the full extent. However,it is a slippery slope if we condone what are basically executions carried out by police...and if we turn a blind eye to that sort of thing... do we allow firemen to burn down the home of someone who sets an arson fire and firemen die? (and yes sometimes these are premeditated to kill firemen, ie, booby trapped)...what about if someone kills your spouse... can you then kill that person without punishment? Really, what makes it ok for police to take revenge and not others? ....and if you are a christian (or any other religion that preaches vengeance belongs to God not us) how do you justify agreeing with police "justice"?...how do you justify comments like above? I am not able to come to terms with this in my own mind, so I understand others having the same problem...I just can't help but think it is wrong
Thank you- Yes, I am Christian. And being such, I honor the "thou shall not bear false witness" I have not expanded my thoughts to broach what you have, in your comment. By that same logic, are we all just some kind of halfway enlightened anarchists? I think not.
There is an unspoken brother/sisterhood between our police, and any police worldwide.. It is misunderstood simply because they ARE the Police. Does their badge give them the right to gun down innocents? Of course it doesn't!
But that same badge sure as hell shouldn't be a target either! (Now tell me again WHY those 4 officers were gunned down? Oh wait, it is only because they wore badges)!
But getting back to the "if I am Christian" comment... Hmmm....
Apparently he did NOT know these 4 specific cops. He was scum, having a long and violent history- and just didn't like what the badge represents. So HE JUST SHOT THEM.
Here are the most important words from that article...
_________________________
As police searched door-to-door in Seattle neighborhoods for Clemmons, law enforcement officials complained that the felon with a history of violence should not have been on the street at all. Clemmons was released early from an Arkansas prison in 2000 by then-governor Mike Huckabee.
He violated parole a year later when he was convicted of robbery and was sent back to prison. He served enough time to be released on early parole in 2004.
At the time of Sunday's shooting, he was free on bail while facing charges of assaulting a police officer and raping a child.
"It's a tragedy," said Larry Jegley, Pulaski County, Ark., prosecutor, whose office prosecuted the 17-year-old Clemmons in 1989 and 1990 on a series of robberies, burglaries and thefts. Clemmons was sentenced to 108 years in prison.
Jegley, a Democrat, said that during Huckabee's 10 years in office, the Republican governor granted clemency too often.
"I can safely say that if what police are saying is true, Clemmons would not have killed four police officers if he were locked up in Arkansas," Jegley said. "I don't think he should have gotten his sentence commuted. I thought he was dangerous and violent." Without clemency, Clemmons' earliest release date would have been 2021, Jegley said.
Huckabee, who cited Clemmons' youth in commuting his sentence, did not return calls seeking comment.
Appearing on Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor on Monday night, Huckabee defended his decision, saying a unanimous parole board and the judge overseeing Clemmons' case agreed to the reduced sentence. "I'm responsible for that," he said. He blamed Arkansas prosecutors and Washington state judges for not keeping Clemmons locked up despite an escalating pattern of violence.
It was the second time Huckabee supported early release of an inmate who later committed more violent offenses.
In 1999, Huckabee supported the early release of Wayne DuMond, who was serving time for the abduction and rape of a high school cheerleader. Two years later, DuMond was convicted of killing a Missouri woman.
OMG....with all of those warning signs before......and child rape on top of it........very sad indeed, those people's lives could have been saved had he not been let go. tragic indeed.
A middle aged man walks in to a local hospital, heads right for the birthing unit, opens the doors, methodically shoots and kills the five nurses at the desk, and walks out again. Other nurses on the unit know who it was and are really angry that their unit was targeted. One of them leaves, buys a gun and hunts the man down...and kills him. Is this ok? or does that nurse face charges of murder? If you say they are justified, where does it end (as stated in my previous post). If you say it is not right, then why would it be ok if a police officer did the same thing? Now, I am not saying that was the case here.. the facts are not all in...but it does happen..and is usually covered up and explained away somehow. I do understand when you are in the space you are in, flint, the anger...the fears...we all tend to think differently when we are somehow more directly involved somehow. I am merely stating where my mind goes on this issue One other thing , I do not think Huckabee was necessarily wrong in releasing the guy back then (again, I don't know what were the facts and circumstances around that)...but I heard it suggested that he was listening to the advice of others and made the call that there was a chance for that young kid back then...any leniency shown the guy after that for other offenses would have definitely been wrong because by then it would have become obvious that he had no desire to change. I am glad this did not have to play out in the court system...justice would not have been served...and I pray that those who did find him, were fine upstanding officers who were capable of controlling their anger towards him.
There are those who will do horrible things and then "push" the authorities into killing them because they know they can't do it to themselves and there is always that chance that the police will be seen negatively for what they did to him. Sounds to me like he wanted to die.
I say...don't coddle the criminal....don't waste time spending money for their upkeep in prison and lawyer fees. If the guilt is obvious, such as in this case, give 'em what they wanted in the first place.
You said, "I am not saying that was the case here." You are right. It is NOT the case here. If I have missed something then I'm sorry. But were the nurses part of law enforcement? Were they wearing police badges? Because if not, then this comment is more aptly saved for something far more applicable.
No one is advocating that police run around and casually shoot anyone on sight. ALTHOUGH THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE UP AGAINST EVERY DAY OF THE YEAR! Yes, they chose the profession. Who do we call as soon as we have a problem? And then, They respond. Not even knowing who/what is behind door # 1. Takes a special breed to be able to do that for us.
I remain thankful to them all. And grateful the scum is dead.
XOXO me
Huckabee was dead wrong- As would be anyone who advised him to do it. Even in 1999, people KNEW that violent sex criminals are never EVER rehabilitated to live in society as we need it to be.
I agree wholeheartedly with all the rest you have said. Bread and water. Chain gangs. I say bring 'em back (for the ones that live to get to court that is).
flint.. the scenario was just hypothetical...to make the point that nobody...badge or not...has the right to become judge, jury and executioner to extract what they deem to be justice. I have the greatest respect for any first responder ..they all put their lives on the line every day (and many do not have the benefit of carrying a firearm). I have no problem with the huge majority of police who play by the rules (maybe bend them just a little) and I am intelligent enough to know that the bad apples are few and far between in the overall scope of things. HOWEVER...they do exist as you will readily admit if being truthful and if they are allowed to color outside the lines, it is that slippery slope to either a police state or a country where any individual has the same right to take revenge. I know I am beating a dead horse here because you are so close to the subject on a personal level, so, respectfully, this will be my last comment on this thread
Being as I live in the CITY that the 4 officers were gunned down in cold blooded murder, I am HAPPY and THANKFUL that Clemmons was shot and killed. He had NO REASON to kill these police officers! I believe that if the Seattle police officer had not shot and killed him that he would have died anyway from the gunshot wound he sustained from the Lakewood officer who fought with him and got one shot off then was gunned down in return...
Pierce County Sheriffs Department has THREE people in custody who aided and abetted this sicko... One being the GETAWAY driver... And I heard on the news this morning that they expect to have 3-4 MORE people in custody by the end of the day. I hope these people spend a LONG time in jail!
I don't think you understand exactly WHAT happened...
Sunday morning approximately 8:15am, Maurice Clemmons walked into a coffee shop where 4 officers were getting ready to start their shifts... He walked up to the counter like he was going to order something, showed his gun to the barista and then turned around and started shooting the officers. TWO of them were shot before they had a chance to react. The third stood up but was shot before anything could be done and the fourth actually FOUGHT with this horrible man to the door and managed to get a shot off and shoot Clemmons before he himself was shot and killed...
Clemmons had been on the run for TWO days... That was TWO days of EVERYONE being on edge and worried because it was not known EXACTLY where he was...
This is NOT a case of the Seattle officer being a 'bad apple'. He pulled up behind a car that was idling but had no one in it. As he was in his car he noticed movement behind him. He got out, recognized the man as the suspect and told him to put his hands up. Clemmons did not comply. He kept moving towards the officer. The officer told him to stop. He did not. Know that it had been all over the news here that the suspect was to be considered ARMED AND DANGEROUS. Clemmons then proceeded to run, not away from the officer but around the car. This officer did the correct thing and SHOT. If he would not have shot, Clemmons could have shot the officer and been on the run yet again...
Huckabee has tried to also place blame on the Pierce County judicial system... Now I have to admit that he should NOT have been able to post bond and get out of jail (a WEEK ago!). I WHOLE HEARTEDLY believe that if Huckabee had not released Clemmons from a LIFE SENTENCE (100+ years) that he would have never moved to Washington and these murders would have never happened... Huckabee needs to man up and admit some wrongdoing here!
I wanted to point out, no one would be screaming wrong doing had he been shot to death on the spot during the confrontation with the last cop. So what is any different about them hunting him down????
More than this... my heart stops because I have not heard from Jamie in a while....................................................
Anyone that approaches much less RUNS AT an officer who has demanded otherwise is going to be shot. This fact alone stands independant of the previous shootings.
a man presumed to be armed and dangerous who runs at an officer who has told them to stop is going to be shot DEAD.
I see nothing wrong here assuming that the facts are as presented (that the officer identified himself and demanded a halt.)
Anne I remember the chain gangs alongside the highways when I was a kid. That was back when the roadways here in Alabama actually looked clean. Now there is garbage everywhere! I guess the criminals are sitting around getting fat and lazy now. Every now and then I look out and see some guys in orange Jail stripes planting flowers out on the highway medium. There are fewer and fewer to trust these days to even do that much. Not seen any chained together in a really long time.
Suicide by Cop is still a cowards way out. If someone wants to kill someone so badly or have someone else kill them, heck....send them to the middle east and let them look for Bin Laden. Maybe they can satisfy their "grim reaper" needs over there.
Yes, I am close to the situation. And yes, I do know what you are trying to have me do. (Even though it has NOTHING to do with what happened). So here ya go.
99.9999% of all police officers are decent upstanding citizens who have solid records. The other .0001% is not and does not.
Your point is?
Do with this what you will. Personally, I am just not that hypothetical or paranoid.
Where the "H" have you been on this one? hehehe (Better late than never they say).
But... I have a whole 'nother can of worms now... I sure as hell hope that the 3-4 others they now have in custody are afforded the same charges as this piece of crud would have been (had he lived). I want them ALL charged with this quad brotherhood murder. I want them ALL to spend the rest of their lives behind bars. (Unless Washington has the death penalty, then I'll go with that)
That, my dear is called guilt by association. The charges should be the same. Cause and effect.
AND, I do hope that gut wound he had made him suffer too.
PS I am sorry about your being made to feel so impotent by this man being on the loose. Truth is (although they will never admit it), that the cops most likely did know all along where he was, (in what area anyway). If something like this assuredly affects your own neighborhood you will notice an uptick of squad cars, and in general just more traffic. This is due to the fact that not all police, or first responders, (whatever you wish to call them), are in squad cars.
Read this. The man is scum. He was more than likely always scum. Now he is dead. Wish someone would talk to Clemmons' parents, or even teachers. I'd be willing to bet he always had a problem with authority figures.
Had his sentence not been commuted many peoples lives would not be so adversely affected by his presence on the outside. (And I am not just talking about lives lost in Washington).
Huckabee had the power, and it was he who ultimately commuted his sentence.
It is more than obvious that Huckabee does not have the gonads to accept responsibility for his actions. (This is a very important character flaw for anyone in a position of power).
First and foremost, I am sorry that the lines of communication with Jamie have been blurred. You can do something about that? Please do if you can. And then let me know. (If I recall, Jamie is your brother).
As far as the rest of your statement goes, I could not agree more with any of it. And you are right, it does stand independent.
Which brings to mind a really funny story... I once hauled off and hit a cop. He was on my property. He was in plainclothes. He p*ssed me off. So I hit him. hehehe
WAIT! Stop the presses! It has just occurred to me that you "assume" I would not feel this way had it not been for loving a cop. That would be a mistake. You would assume wrong. I was raised better than that.
I don't remember the chain gangs- (imagine they lasted longer in the South where it is warm). hehehe But resurrecting these would keep things in order in many places.
But I do think that 'we', as a society, have made jail and prison way too comfy of a life for mere convicts. The guys in orange that you see now are honor prisoners- and probably from a light security prison. There is still a huge difference between blue collar crimes, drunk drivers, and hard time lifetime violent criminals. The violence earns them the chain.
Not sure if I would want the likes of the scum working alongside to either my godson or my son in law in Afghanistan. I would definitely not. But I do like that line of thinking.
You have brought up still another very important point... ...Suicide, whether by cop or other, is ALWAYS the cowards way out.
Having received a note in my email, I told the sender I would post my reply here...
Good Morning! I am not narrow minded, and I really do see this as a complete circle. The more these criminals believe they will be shot, then perhaps the less crime we will have.
Taking the shot away from the cop is very very absolutely wrong; and puts us ALL in the line of fire. From the criminal. And god knows I would rather be shot/stopped by a cop who is trained, (even better than I) how to handle a firearm- than I would want to be shot by a criminal.
Your thoughts on vengeance and God- All well and good- But like our scientists too, He created them all. (And no I am not going to be arguing the bible here).
As it is now, these guys are laughing at the cops! They only fear the other criminals, don't you see that?
They know we have given them waaaaaaay too many personal rights. And their personal rights should have stopped the very minute they became violent.
Is that old school? Yup. And I like it fine in my little old school.
I remember respect of the law. We are SO far removed from that, that is IS laughable.
From what I have read, this scumbag told his "friends" on Saturday that they needed to watch the news on Sunday because he was going to kill some cops. (Premeditation). He then walked into the coffee shop, deliberately murdered four LEO's, calmly walked out and had a "friend" drive him away. His family hid him and treated his wound. He was going for the gun of one of the officers he murdered to commit another LEO murder when he was shot. He was already going to trial for assault of and officer and 2nd degree rape of a CHILD!! This scum deserved what he got. I'm just sorry that mr huckabee was misguided enough to feel sorry for this scumbag. He has been a lawbreaker all his life. Now he is dead. Good riddance.
Premeditation Murder of four Officers Witnesses Execution
There was NO question this scumbag was guilty. Now he's a dead, guilty scumbag. I hope any and all accomplices go to jail for a long time. The Driver should get the death penaly because he KNEW why he was driving clemmons away.
There is a lot of crazies out there. Good thing he is off the streets
ReplyDeleteI am thankful we have men and woman who are willing to place their lives in danger to protect me and mine.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteOff the streets and on his way to the morgue...
Don't ever forget to tell your children that as well.
ReplyDeleteAn autopsy "the people" will happily fund the bill for.
ReplyDeleteI haven't heard all the particulars about this yet, only that the police found and shot him. I know a lot of people are thinking that this is a good thing, that it'll save taxpayers a ton of money and that the streets will be safer now that he's dead. But this is wrong on so many levels. First, what right did the police have to be jury and judge? Second, even if the people in the restaurant picked him out from mug shots they could've be wrong. Third, how would any of us feel if one of our relatives was falsely identified as being a murderer and instead of the police knocking on their door and arresting them - they just shot them. And fourth, apparently the man had been acting more and more deranged in the past few weeks, so the solution for anyone in this condition that kills people is to shoot them? (sigh) I've been friends with cops, and I know how they look out for their own, but this is way out of line. Sorry Annie, I hope we can be friends and still disagree.
ReplyDeleteYep, you don't know the particulars. He was shot after being asked to stop. He was carrying one of the dead police officers gun.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe the police were acting blindly in this incident at all. They had overwhelming evidence leading them to this man.
Well that's more than I had heard up until now. Even so, the cops would only have had the right to shoot him if it was in self defense, or to protect one of their fellow officers. Otherwise it was their own way of handing out their own judgment. Which is scary.
ReplyDeleteWe can disagree any old time. No worries my dear.
ReplyDeleteTwice in the past 10 years I have had my heart in my throat because someone had killed cops here and I couldn't get hold of Randy for hours.
In real easy to understand terms, if you shoot cops, they get to shoot back.
(You didn't really think the guy stood a chance of living, did you)?
I woke Randy up to tell him and he was more than pleased. That is only as it should be.
If this freak would have shot 4 little kids, the outcome would be the very same, and I do not think many would object. (Well except for those who actually would brave the elements and acknowledge even knowing him)
XOXO
Me
ReplyDeleteRight again Toots.
He killed 4 cops! He gets to die. Simple.
Sweet RT;
ReplyDeleteThat too is only as it should be. And I am thinking criminals SHOULD BE scared of the cops anyway. (Sorry, but you won't get any compassion from me for this dead and useless body).
He was dead the minute he decided to do this- That is called, "Suicide by Cop."
XOXO
Me
I think this isn't about judgement, this guy was a threat too many and not just cops. His history old and new had proven it. Left alone, we would hurt more and had to be stopped. He choose his end when he chose not to turn himself in. He had a gun, he was asked to stop, he didn't, he was a threat, they shot. This is a legal judgement given to cops.
ReplyDeleteEver hear of suicide by police? This almost sounds like it.I have a grandson that is finishing his four year degree in criminal justice. He is working as a city policeman part time, hopefully in a safe little town. The fact is,he knows going in what the potential dangers are and is willing to accept them. I honor all honest law enforcement
ReplyDeleteI have heard that 40% of all crimes occur in the city.
ReplyDeleteGuess where the other 60% are?
At any rate, there are no 'safety zones' when you are wearing the uniform.
He just needs to learn- (And once he gets past that, he can retire).
Like you I honor them all.
XOXO
me
I have two views on this topic...the first has said from the moment the manhunt began that he would not live to be brought to trial...there are some police out there who prefer to take the law into their own hands and I can't say I blame them... the courts are notoriously too lax in punishing criminals to the full extent.
ReplyDeleteHowever,it is a slippery slope if we condone what are basically executions carried out by police...and if we turn a blind eye to that sort of thing... do we allow firemen to burn down the home of someone who sets an arson fire and firemen die? (and yes sometimes these are premeditated to kill firemen, ie, booby trapped)...what about if someone kills your spouse... can you then kill that person without punishment? Really, what makes it ok for police to take revenge and not others?
....and if you are a christian (or any other religion that preaches vengeance belongs to God not us) how do you justify agreeing with police "justice"?...how do you justify comments like above?
I am not able to come to terms with this in my own mind, so I understand others having the same problem...I just can't help but think it is wrong
Thank you- Yes, I am Christian. And being such, I honor the "thou shall not bear false witness"
ReplyDeleteI have not expanded my thoughts to broach what you have, in your comment.
By that same logic, are we all just some kind of halfway enlightened anarchists? I think not.
There is an unspoken brother/sisterhood between our police, and any police worldwide..
It is misunderstood simply because they ARE the Police.
Does their badge give them the right to gun down innocents? Of course it doesn't!
But that same badge sure as hell shouldn't be a target either! (Now tell me again WHY those 4 officers were gunned down? Oh wait, it is only because they wore badges)!
But getting back to the "if I am Christian" comment...
Hmmm....
XOXO
Me
glad they found him and got him, I wonder what the messed up story was about all of it.
ReplyDeletewho is Randy?
I am glad too.
ReplyDeleteAnd about the messed up story? It wasn't messed up (to me anyway).
To me it is very much cut and dried.
XOXO
me
Apparently he did NOT know these 4 specific cops.
ReplyDeleteHe was scum, having a long and violent history- and just didn't like what the badge represents.
So HE JUST SHOT THEM.
Hang on. I will get the story from this morning.
XOXO
Me
Here are the most important words from that article...
ReplyDelete_________________________
As police searched door-to-door in Seattle neighborhoods for Clemmons, law enforcement officials complained that the felon with a history of violence should not have been on the street at all. Clemmons was released early from an Arkansas prison in 2000 by then-governor Mike Huckabee.
He violated parole a year later when he was convicted of robbery and was sent back to prison. He served enough time to be released on early parole in 2004.
At the time of Sunday's shooting, he was free on bail while facing charges of assaulting a police officer and raping a child.
"It's a tragedy," said Larry Jegley, Pulaski County, Ark., prosecutor, whose office prosecuted the 17-year-old Clemmons in 1989 and 1990 on a series of robberies, burglaries and thefts. Clemmons was sentenced to 108 years in prison.
Jegley, a Democrat, said that during Huckabee's 10 years in office, the Republican governor granted clemency too often.
"I can safely say that if what police are saying is true, Clemmons would not have killed four police officers if he were locked up in Arkansas," Jegley said. "I don't think he should have gotten his sentence commuted. I thought he was dangerous and violent." Without clemency, Clemmons' earliest release date would have been 2021, Jegley said.
Huckabee, who cited Clemmons' youth in commuting his sentence, did not return calls seeking comment.
Appearing on Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor on Monday night, Huckabee defended his decision, saying a unanimous parole board and the judge overseeing Clemmons' case agreed to the reduced sentence. "I'm responsible for that," he said. He blamed Arkansas prosecutors and Washington state judges for not keeping Clemmons locked up despite an escalating pattern of violence.
It was the second time Huckabee supported early release of an inmate who later committed more violent offenses.
In 1999, Huckabee supported the early release of Wayne DuMond, who was serving time for the abduction and rape of a high school cheerleader. Two years later, DuMond was convicted of killing a Missouri woman.
_________________________
OMG....with all of those warning signs before......and child rape on top of it........very sad indeed, those people's lives could have been saved had he not been let go. tragic indeed.
ReplyDeleteI think Huckabee, and not only Huckabee, should get on his hands and knees and apologize to each and every family.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteCan you imagine if Huckabee had gotten the nomination???
How dare he even run for ANY office???
Oh I am mad.
And people do not understand why my heart stops when this shit happens.
XOXO
Me
And that anyone is upset that this scum is dead? Are you kidding me?
ReplyDeleteNo. I do not understand.
Does that make me "judgmental"? You bet it does.
I'll wear that badge with my own honor.
I wasn't upset that he was killed, not at all. I just like to know the whole story, thanks for posting this.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteYou are very welcome Sweetie!
XOXO
me
A middle aged man walks in to a local hospital, heads right for the birthing unit, opens the doors, methodically shoots and kills the five nurses at the desk, and walks out again. Other nurses on the unit know who it was and are really angry that their unit was targeted. One of them leaves, buys a gun and hunts the man down...and kills him. Is this ok? or does that nurse face charges of murder? If you say they are justified, where does it end (as stated in my previous post). If you say it is not right, then why would it be ok if a police officer did the same thing?
ReplyDeleteNow, I am not saying that was the case here.. the facts are not all in...but it does happen..and is usually covered up and explained away somehow.
I do understand when you are in the space you are in, flint, the anger...the fears...we all tend to think differently when we are somehow more directly involved somehow. I am merely stating where my mind goes on this issue
One other thing , I do not think Huckabee was necessarily wrong in releasing the guy back then (again, I don't know what were the facts and circumstances around that)...but I heard it suggested that he was listening to the advice of others and made the call that there was a chance for that young kid back then...any leniency shown the guy after that for other offenses would have definitely been wrong because by then it would have become obvious that he had no desire to change. I am glad this did not have to play out in the court system...justice would not have been served...and I pray that those who did find him, were fine upstanding officers who were capable of controlling their anger towards him.
ReplyDeleteHad to re~highlight my comment here for reasons which will be explained shortly...
There are those who will do horrible things and then "push" the authorities into killing them because they know they can't do it to themselves and there is always that chance that the police will be seen negatively for what they did to him. Sounds to me like he wanted to die.
ReplyDeleteI say...don't coddle the criminal....don't waste time spending money for their upkeep in prison and lawyer fees. If the guilt is obvious, such as in this case, give 'em what they wanted in the first place.
You said, "I am not saying that was the case here."
ReplyDeleteYou are right. It is NOT the case here.
If I have missed something then I'm sorry. But were the nurses part of law enforcement? Were they wearing police badges?
Because if not, then this comment is more aptly saved for something far more applicable.
No one is advocating that police run around and casually shoot anyone on sight.
ALTHOUGH THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE UP AGAINST EVERY DAY OF THE YEAR!
Yes, they chose the profession.
Who do we call as soon as we have a problem?
And then, They respond. Not even knowing who/what is behind door # 1.
Takes a special breed to be able to do that for us.
I remain thankful to them all. And grateful the scum is dead.
XOXO
me
Huckabee was dead wrong- As would be anyone who advised him to do it.
Even in 1999, people KNEW that violent sex criminals are never EVER rehabilitated to live in society as we need it to be.
Sweetie;
ReplyDeleteThat is what is called "Suicide by Cop"
I agree wholeheartedly with all the rest you have said.
Bread and water. Chain gangs. I say bring 'em back (for the ones that live to get to court that is).
XOXO
Me
flint.. the scenario was just hypothetical...to make the point that nobody...badge or not...has the right to become judge, jury and executioner to extract what they deem to be justice. I have the greatest respect for any first responder ..they all put their lives on the line every day (and many do not have the benefit of carrying a firearm). I have no problem with the huge majority of police who play by the rules (maybe bend them just a little) and I am intelligent enough to know that the bad apples are few and far between in the overall scope of things. HOWEVER...they do exist as you will readily admit if being truthful and if they are allowed to color outside the lines, it is that slippery slope to either a police state or a country where any individual has the same right to take revenge.
ReplyDeleteI know I am beating a dead horse here because you are so close to the subject on a personal level, so, respectfully, this will be my last comment on this thread
Being as I live in the CITY that the 4 officers were gunned down in cold blooded murder, I am HAPPY and THANKFUL that Clemmons was shot and killed. He had NO REASON to kill these police officers! I believe that if the Seattle police officer had not shot and killed him that he would have died anyway from the gunshot wound he sustained from the Lakewood officer who fought with him and got one shot off then was gunned down in return...
ReplyDeletePierce County Sheriffs Department has THREE people in custody who aided and abetted this sicko... One being the GETAWAY driver... And I heard on the news this morning that they expect to have 3-4 MORE people in custody by the end of the day. I hope these people spend a LONG time in jail!
I don't think you understand exactly WHAT happened...
ReplyDeleteSunday morning approximately 8:15am, Maurice Clemmons walked into a coffee shop where 4 officers were getting ready to start their shifts... He walked up to the counter like he was going to order something, showed his gun to the barista and then turned around and started shooting the officers. TWO of them were shot before they had a chance to react. The third stood up but was shot before anything could be done and the fourth actually FOUGHT with this horrible man to the door and managed to get a shot off and shoot Clemmons before he himself was shot and killed...
Clemmons had been on the run for TWO days... That was TWO days of EVERYONE being on edge and worried because it was not known EXACTLY where he was...
This is NOT a case of the Seattle officer being a 'bad apple'. He pulled up behind a car that was idling but had no one in it. As he was in his car he noticed movement behind him. He got out, recognized the man as the suspect and told him to put his hands up. Clemmons did not comply. He kept moving towards the officer. The officer told him to stop. He did not. Know that it had been all over the news here that the suspect was to be considered ARMED AND DANGEROUS. Clemmons then proceeded to run, not away from the officer but around the car. This officer did the correct thing and SHOT. If he would not have shot, Clemmons could have shot the officer and been on the run yet again...
Huckabee has tried to also place blame on the Pierce County judicial system... Now I have to admit that he should NOT have been able to post bond and get out of jail (a WEEK ago!). I WHOLE HEARTEDLY believe that if Huckabee had not released Clemmons from a LIFE SENTENCE (100+ years) that he would have never moved to Washington and these murders would have never happened... Huckabee needs to man up and admit some wrongdoing here!
ReplyDeleteI wanted to point out, no one would be screaming wrong doing had he been shot to death on the spot during the confrontation with the last cop. So what is any different about them hunting him down????
ReplyDeleteThere is no difference in my opinion...
ReplyDeleteMore than this... my heart stops because I have not heard from Jamie in a while....................................................
ReplyDeleteAnyone that approaches much less RUNS AT an officer who has demanded otherwise is going to be shot. This fact alone stands independant of the previous shootings.
a man presumed to be armed and dangerous who runs at an officer who has told them to stop is going to be shot DEAD.
I see nothing wrong here assuming that the facts are as presented (that the officer identified himself and demanded a halt.)
Anne I remember the chain gangs alongside the highways when I was a kid. That was back when the roadways here in Alabama actually looked clean. Now there is garbage everywhere! I guess the criminals are sitting around getting fat and lazy now. Every now and then I look out and see some guys in orange Jail stripes planting flowers out on the highway medium. There are fewer and fewer to trust these days to even do that much. Not seen any chained together in a really long time.
ReplyDeleteSuicide by Cop is still a cowards way out. If someone wants to kill someone so badly or have someone else kill them, heck....send them to the middle east and let them look for Bin Laden. Maybe they can satisfy their "grim reaper" needs over there.
ReplyDeleteColoring outside the lines now...
Yes, I am close to the situation.
And yes, I do know what you are trying to have me do. (Even though it has NOTHING to do with what happened).
So here ya go.
99.9999% of all police officers are decent upstanding citizens who have solid records.
The other .0001% is not and does not.
Your point is?
Do with this what you will.
Personally, I am just not that hypothetical or paranoid.
Where the "H" have you been on this one? hehehe (Better late than never they say).
ReplyDeleteBut... I have a whole 'nother can of worms now...
I sure as hell hope that the 3-4 others they now have in custody are afforded the same charges as this piece of crud would have been (had he lived).
I want them ALL charged with this quad brotherhood murder.
I want them ALL to spend the rest of their lives behind bars. (Unless Washington has the death penalty, then I'll go with that)
That, my dear is called guilt by association. The charges should be the same.
Cause and effect.
AND, I do hope that gut wound he had made him suffer too.
XOXO
Me
ReplyDeleteBingo.
XOXO
Me
PS
I am sorry about your being made to feel so impotent by this man being on the loose.
Truth is (although they will never admit it), that the cops most likely did know all along where he was, (in what area anyway).
If something like this assuredly affects your own neighborhood you will notice an uptick of squad cars, and in general just more traffic. This is due to the fact that not all police, or first responders, (whatever you wish to call them), are in squad cars.
Everyone is going to pass the buck on this one.
ReplyDeleteI'll keep the facts straight for everyone then.
Read this.
The man is scum. He was more than likely always scum. Now he is dead. Wish someone would talk to Clemmons' parents, or even teachers. I'd be willing to bet he always had a problem with authority figures.
Had his sentence not been commuted many peoples lives would not be so adversely affected by his presence on the outside. (And I am not just talking about lives lost in Washington).
Huckabee had the power, and it was he who ultimately commuted his sentence.
It is more than obvious that Huckabee does not have the gonads to accept responsibility for his actions. (This is a very important character flaw for anyone in a position of power).
XOXO
Me
ReplyDeleteYou have a knack for the obvious!
Thank you for this
XOXO
me
ReplyDeleteI agree wholeheartedly.
ReplyDeleteFirst and foremost, I am sorry that the lines of communication with Jamie have been blurred.
You can do something about that? Please do if you can. And then let me know. (If I recall, Jamie is your brother).
XOXO
Me
ReplyDeleteAs far as the rest of your statement goes, I could not agree more with any of it. And you are right, it does stand independent.
Which brings to mind a really funny story...
I once hauled off and hit a cop.
He was on my property.
He was in plainclothes.
He p*ssed me off.
So I hit him.
hehehe
True Story!
WAIT! Stop the presses!
ReplyDeleteIt has just occurred to me that you "assume" I would not feel this way had it not been for loving a cop.
That would be a mistake. You would assume wrong. I was raised better than that.
XOXO
me
I don't remember the chain gangs- (imagine they lasted longer in the South where it is warm). hehehe
ReplyDeleteBut resurrecting these would keep things in order in many places.
But I do think that 'we', as a society, have made jail and prison way too comfy of a life for mere convicts.
The guys in orange that you see now are honor prisoners- and probably from a light security prison.
There is still a huge difference between blue collar crimes, drunk drivers, and hard time lifetime violent criminals. The violence earns them the chain.
Not sure if I would want the likes of the scum working alongside to either my godson or my son in law in Afghanistan. I would definitely not.
But I do like that line of thinking.
You have brought up still another very important point...
...Suicide, whether by cop or other, is ALWAYS the cowards way out.
XOXO
me
Having received a note in my email, I told the sender I would post my reply here...
ReplyDeleteGood Morning!
I am not narrow minded, and I really do see this as a complete circle.
The more these criminals believe they will be shot, then perhaps the less crime we will have.
Taking the shot away from the cop is very very absolutely wrong; and puts us ALL in the line of fire. From the criminal.
And god knows I would rather be shot/stopped by a cop who is trained, (even better than I) how to handle a firearm- than I would want to be shot by a criminal.
Your thoughts on vengeance and God- All well and good- But like our scientists too, He created them all. (And no I am not going to be arguing the bible here).
As it is now, these guys are laughing at the cops! They only fear the other criminals, don't you see that?
They know we have given them waaaaaaay too many personal rights.
And their personal rights should have stopped the very minute they became violent.
Is that old school? Yup. And I like it fine in my little old school.
I remember respect of the law. We are SO far removed from that, that is IS laughable.
XOXO
Me
Dear Annie,
ReplyDeleteFrom what I have read, this scumbag told his "friends" on Saturday that they needed to watch the news on Sunday because he was going to kill some cops. (Premeditation). He then walked into the coffee shop, deliberately murdered four LEO's, calmly walked out and had a "friend" drive him away. His family hid him and treated his wound. He was going for the gun of one of the officers he murdered to commit another LEO murder when he was shot. He was already going to trial for assault of and officer and 2nd degree rape of a CHILD!! This scum deserved what he got. I'm just sorry that mr huckabee was misguided enough to feel sorry for this scumbag. He has been a lawbreaker all his life. Now he is dead. Good riddance.
Premeditation
Murder of four Officers
Witnesses
Execution
There was NO question this scumbag was guilty. Now he's a dead, guilty scumbag. I hope any and all accomplices go to jail for a long time. The Driver should get the death penaly because he KNEW why he was driving clemmons away.
IMHO,
OXOX,
Snotball.
Sweet Snotball!
ReplyDeleteWhere have YOU been too?
hehehe
Good riddance is right! And an FYI, I can add nothing to your comment. It is quite "well said" !
XOXO
Me
ReplyDeleteToo bad we all feel the need to state the obvious here...
Wonder why we do that?
Thank you Dear Annie. I've been here. quietly lurking, LOLOLOL. HUGS Dear One.
ReplyDeleteno Jamie is our friend...
ReplyDeletemy brother is in chicagoland and is not a beat cop. Him I talk to.
xoxoxox
still working on it and will update you when I hear from her.
pea
I have hit cops many times.
ReplyDeleteprobably as many times as I have kissed them....