http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090110/ap_on_re_us/mother_s_slaying
'Man shot my mommy':
Ohio woman slain, son taken -
"...police arrested Charlie Myers, 22, of Columbus, who confessed to the crime."
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Click the link above to read the whole story...
I (almost) did OK with this nauseating story; until I got to the following words:
"Myers had it rough from an early age, when his mother died of a drug-related heart attack when he was just 4. He lived in homeless shelters with his father, who beat him with a belt, and struggled with a hearing impairment that wasn't addressed until he was 6 years old. He spent most of his childhood being shuttled between more than 20 foster homes in the Columbus area..."
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Hmm...
Do I really have to reiterate the question in my title? Spare me the BS please.
(As if there is ANY justification for rape, sodomy, brutalizing and terrorizing a 4 year old child? For arson)?
In my own little opinion, this man is 22 years old.
How old must one be to be responsible for what they do?
How old does anyone have to be before they quit blaming their parents, or their upbringing, for bad choices THEY make as an adult?
Any "perfect" parents out there? Cuz I SURE would like to hear how ya'all did it.
And no, I didn't beat my kids, (but they sure as heck got their backsides swatted if/when they earned it)...
XOXO
Anne
I think in this story, didn't he just drop the child off at a rest stop? He did not harm the boy? Now I did not read about the mans childhood but yes, I think what happens as a small child influences who you are. That said, there are so many people who over come this and others who are just one big mess. I Do not advocate violence or beatings but all my kids got a swat on the tush when they needed it. There is a big difference between the two.
ReplyDeleteSweet GG;
ReplyDeleteYou are right, what happens DOES influence us.
Being the "product" of adoption, and having done my 'search', I can also add that there is an equal amount of what makes me 'me' both from environment and DNA.
The old "Nature vs Nurture"
It ALL holds water for me.
But this is not an excuse. Surely a person still has free will. It is our God given right to be human.
This, from the story above...
"The killer also sexually assaulted the boy before taking him to the rest stop and abandoning him, police said. They are not naming the family so as not to identify the victim of an alleged sexual offense."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090110/ap_on_re_us/mother_s_slaying
So the little boy was harmed.
Still mad at this story.
XOXO
Me
I read and heard this story on the local news...so sad to think things like this goes on in the world today. I too feel sorry that he had a hard life...but a lot of people have hard lives and turn into killer's because they want what someone else has. After a certain age we would think and hope that we know right from wrong. There is help out her for people that need and want it....to bad someone in his family couldn't have had helped him someway...this isn't an excuse for what he did...and sometimes saying I'm sorry isn't enough especially when you took someone's life...
ReplyDeleteHow long before the courts have some protocol to follow that deems a rough parentage as some reason to commit these heinous crimes?
ReplyDeleteI DO know people who had it bad.
They have 'chosen' to do right by themselves, and society.
ReplyDeleteYou have made a real point here Sweet Toni...
In that having a child apologize for even the little things teaches a bit of responsibility for what the child did. Too late for this one. I can only hope they have the death penalty there.
XOXO
Me
A very good friend of mine lived through a horror that far surpasses the abuse this thug has endured, and to the best of my knowledge has never 'jacked a car, shot anyone, or ran in a gang.
ReplyDeleteI have no sympathy for an anti-social lout, nomatter how gut wrenching is youth was . . .
amen!! You know what happened to me when I was younger. I had so much trauma and tragedy. I had a stepmonster (I utter REFUSE to use the word stepmother when speaking of her) that beat me, was abusive and just down right mean. I think I turned out alright...because after all, I am my mother's daughter...
ReplyDeleteWell, here's my opinion for what it's worth....
ReplyDeleteI think a small part has to do with parentage...a very small part. But don't punish or blame the parent for a child's wrong doing--no matter what the age. A parent can teach their children right from wrong and all that stuff but if they choose to "run" with "the wrong crowd", then that's a whole other thing. Peer pressure influences alot of kids both for the good and the bad.
I get so tired of hearing about how people that go out and kill someone turn around and blame their parents and how they were raised. That is just a whole lotta BS!!! I've said it before and I'll say it again----what kids today need is a good warming of the seat of their pants. If more parents would do that instead of just letting them do what they want, they wouldn't be visiting their kids in the county jail.
My biological father was one of the most abusive men you ever wanted to meet but I turned out pretty damn good. And even if things didn't turn out the way they have..I sure wouldn't blame my parents for it. I am my own person and I make decisions that will either make or break me.
Ok, I think I've said enough. Very sore subject with me.
Thank you so much DA;
ReplyDeleteI do know people who have lived horror as children too.
But then keep hearing of the others who say "poor poor pitiful me"
Hats off to your friend.
XOXO
Me
ReplyDeleteSweet Thers;
You have to know that you are just one of the people that crossed my mind when I read this- You have lived through such bullsh*t that most people cannot even begin to fathom or understand.
You have turned out just fine! As have your own children.
Your mother IS proud.
As I am to know you and to have your friendship as well.
XOXO
me
Sweet Pam;
ReplyDeleteYour opinion is ALWAYS welcomed here. And yes, you turned out just fine!
I have always held my own little opinion that by the time a child reaches a certain age, say 13, they clearly KNOW the difference between what is right and what is wrong.
That is not to say that kids don't screw up- Lordy, some even try to rewrite the 10 Commandments.
Kids have always screwed up, and always will. (Such is the nature of 'growing up').
But from copping and copying a paper in middle school, to murder, is quite a stretch.
As you can tell, I have tired of all the excuses too.
About that "warming" hehehe (Pa would have put it that way too)-
Gee, what about "time outs"? Nah, I don't think so either.
And NO, I am NOT advocating beating a child. And a time out can be a cure all for some. (Not many).
Hell, I could use a time out and I just want the rest it would provide.
XOXO
Me
awwww...that means so much to me!!
ReplyDeleteI love you Anna-Anna >:D
ReplyDeleteI love you too!
XOXO
Me
Yeah its the whole victim mentality, which outrages me that we are supposed to feel more sorry for the sorry assed mo`fo that commits these acts than we are the people he/they brutalise. Makes me wonder just how badly someone has to act before someone says enough is enough.
ReplyDeleteAs for the whole Nature v Nurture debate I too was adopted and was then beaten the shit out of badly enough to end up in hospital several times by the time I was 8 ( by my adoptive father) and yeah it had a huge effect on my life, long story short it took me 30 years and a huge amount of help to get any kind of self esteem, and yeah when I was a teenager I was an ass but the only person I physically damaged with all my acting out was ME!!!
But anyways as Anne says there is free will and I personally am sick of all these people who say "well it wasnt my fault I was never taught any different", in my humble opinion( ok which is anything but) that is complete BS, if it hurts you, its gonna hurt someone else and unless you are insane you know that and there is no excuse apart from insanity that excuses this kind of behaviour.
By the way Im really glad to see both you and Casey home :)
Hugs
Dear Sweet Sophie;
ReplyDeleteAs you know, my own adoptive parents were wonderful- and in my teens I might have hollered some things about child abuse, (not to mention 'child labor laws', hehehe).
Yet as an adult I can honestly say that I was never beat- And that the swats and any discipline I received were more than 'earned' on my part.
Like yourself, I did more harm to 'me' than to anyone else during those wicked teenage years.
You are SO right about the "victim mentality" here.
I do believe that I for one have heard enough, and can easily say "enough IS enough".
One either takes responsibility or they don't.
Tough? You bet.
Worth it? Oh what a world we might have if everyone thought so.
You should never EVER doubt your self worth/image/esteem Sweetie! You have been there for me many many times. A worthless "mo'fo" wouldn't have been.
XOXO
Me
Have you all noticed that all of the comments here are from parents?
ReplyDeleteI have no one screaming that they were perfect- indeed like me, they aren't.
That said, neither are our kids. But we love them anyway, as they do us.
So where ARE all the perfect parents who have the gall (or the ignorance) to say "not MY kid" ?
hehehe
um, I'm not a perfect parent. And even though my kids are grown and gone~they still listen to momma and ask me for advice. Hell, I'm STILL learning how to raise my kids!! But isn't that what it's all about? You make mistakes, you learn, you all grow together~you are there for each other??
ReplyDeleteAMEN!!!! And where all the kids that think that spanking is abuse or whatever?
ReplyDeleteNo, I am FAR from being perfect. And ya know what? I really don't think I'd wanna be perfect. What fun is there in that??????
I hope I have instilled the proper morals in Cee and my other kids as well. That they know that they, themselves, are the only ones responsible for their actions.....and they have to pay the consequences for them---good or bad.
You are one very fortunate Mama Sweetie;
ReplyDeleteAs you know, two of my kids do not speak to me. But from what I hear (and believe), I am still not responsible for the drug and alcohol use, or the inability they have to reckon with the real world.
I do not press these issues with them- although granted that possibility i would have to ask them where their "sh*t~don't~stink" attitude came from.
But back to Sophies comment- These children (one 31, one 28), are hurting themselves absolutely worse than anyone else, save for their own children.
Did I mess up a few times?
I would not be a good mom if I hadn't.
Yet, I do believe that when push comes to shove, and it will at some point, we will be all that you outlined above too. "You make mistakes, you learn, you all grow together~you are there for each other?"
That is the magic of family.
XOXO
Me
Great question Sweetie about the spank/abure issue.
ReplyDelete(Believe it or not, I think I have the answer!
Those that think they are being abused by a swat on the rump are still some silly tweenybopper~teenagers. (Whether by "age" or "mentality"). Hence we have so many babies raising babies.
Having never been perfect I shall prefer having a little fun.
hehehe
XOXO
Me
But that 'fun' shall never include hurting someone else on purpose, whether it be adult or child.
ReplyDeleteReminds me of yet another friend in Denver who upon hearing about the Columbine massacre immediately thought: "I wonder if that was my son?".
ReplyDeleteFortunately, it wasn't.
ReplyDeleteWow
Speaking of honesty...
And how very scary. Bet he made tracks to KNOW what went on in his sons life after that.
XOXO
Me
I am so with you on the BS excuses...I had a guy call me once railing that I did not show my daughter enough love when she was growing up...BS if anything we gave her too much if that's possible..she was the princess on the velvet cushion!! being the baby and the only girl!! well...I told this guy..when you write the best selling book on how to be a perfect parent you just let me know and I'll be first in line...all this mental illness..emotional abused and what other flimsy excuse is not acceptable for killing,abusing or what not other people or animals. It's just a lousy excuse that our society (or rather the money grubbing lawyers) have latched on to for the sake of making a buck and excusing the sicko.
ReplyDeleteWe can not blame anything for our choices as conscious beings. We were given this thing called FREE WILL for a reason. What you do with it is the measure of the soul.
ReplyDeleteI'm with you. I make my choices right or wrong and I take responsibility for them. This is not the case in wishy washy society where right and wrong are based on indifference not caring.
ReplyDeleteI have watched this story unfold and being in Ohio, heard it early on. It is sick and sad at the same time. If anything, going through poor conditions growing up should make us want to spare others the same grief. After all, if you know how horrible it was for you, then you know that if you did it, it would be horrifying to another. There is the option to break the cycle and control ones behavior. So I whole heartedly agree, there is no excuse for such behavior. You can not grow to adulthood in our society and not know the laws, let alone the moral ones. Unfortunately, it happens every day, somewhere...someone is victimized or murdered. Seems to me it goes deeper...it is a fight between good and evil.
ReplyDeleteI think too many people are way too willing to find any reason to excuse their bad behavior.
ReplyDeleteAnd sadly society condones and encourages it.
Boo-hoo not my fault....Just look at our government, they do the same thing. Don't worry about your bad financial descisions, its not your fault, we will bail you out....
It may have been said before by someone's post. Stirred up a hornets nest, flint. lol
ReplyDeleteThe story is horrific. But many cases are, and this is one of the extremes due to abuse. No perfect parent is on this earth.
Most abuse is passed down from parent to child. It is learned, and thought of as "normal".
I was abused by my mom and my mom's dad, my grandpa. I was first rejected by my mom when my sister become. Then grandpa, it was s#xual abuse, that continued for years. Then physical and mental abuse by mom.
Each child grows to make their own decisions. I believe they should take responsibility for their actions. They chose to grow up and continue what they learned or change the pattern.
I can be proud that I parented better than my parents. I chose to change the pattern.
I believe we are brought into this world with the knowledge of right and wrong.
ReplyDeleteMany people have had crappy parents and horrible childhoods and turned out well. Those who blame their parents for the things they've done wrong are just looking for someone else to take the blame for them. They want society to see them as an adult when they become a teenager. But even well into adulthood, they continue to act like little children who NEED adult supervision! Those are the ones who came into this world to learn about being responsible for their own behavior and they STILL don't get it! Probably never will.
But, what do we do with those kind? I am to the point of believing we should "turn out their lights" permanently. If you know what I mean. Maybe the next time around they can get it right.
There are no 'perfect parents' and there are no 'perfect kids'. All we as parents can do is TRY to teach our children right from wrong and hope that they take something away from it and choose to do the right thing.
ReplyDeleteBut I also feel that you can not blame your parents for the mistakes you make as an adult. I have moved across the country 3 times, two of which were big mistakes. I didn't blame it on my Mom. It surely wasn't her fault that I made a bad decision in my life. You have to be able to own your mistake or you will never learn anything from it.
This is the problem that I believe that guy has. I don't believe he has learned anything from the mistakes he has made in his adult life...
Sweet Bobbie;
ReplyDeleteWhat the heck business was it that guys about how you raised your own child?
Good grief.
But your response was/IS priceless too.
I was the 'baby' too. (Not spoiled though, I always smell this way).
hehehe
As far as the mental illness or diminished capacity goes, I do believe that ANYone that commits these types of crimes is already there and does not need to be deemed so.
The money? Absolutely.
There IS a difference between this crap and a self defense plea too.
Yet anyone that has taken a life, or committed a crime out of self defense will tell you that they will have terrible feelings of it anyway. At the point of fighting for their own lives, the physical "Survival of the Fittest" kicks in, and will always overpower the mental end of it all.
Therefore, they are also at a diminished capacity.
It IS "society" that accepts or rejects any of the BS anyone can put in front of their own states legislature.
Squeaky wheels and all.
As stated above, enough is enough.
XOXO
Me
ReplyDeleteSweet Pea;
Very very well said.
XOXO
me
ReplyDeleteMr KhoolMan;
I am SO listening - There are no gray area of morality.
There are no shades of indifference either.
You have said so much!
XOXO
Me
Sweet BethieBaby-
ReplyDeleteAm hoping that Ohio has the death penalty? Or will you all be paying for his incarceration until another inmate decides they miss their own child?
There is an old plaque that is called "a child learns what he lives."
It is not true if you do take into consideration your own words. And the fact that people have this magical choice of putting forth the effort to "right the wrongs" whether they lived them or not.
Many good people have suffered grievously by the choices their children have made.
Many raunchy parents have raised wonderful pillars of society.
Go figure.
You are right. One canNOT possibly grow to adulthood without realizing right/wrong.
I wonder how much easier it is then to murder someone and say "oops", kidnap and rape their child, and then wait for someone else to pick up the pieces...
XOXO
Me
I think you are right there too.
ReplyDeleteRemember that the same bailout logic began in 1929.
Excuse my behavior? You hit another 'responsible' nail on the head with that.
Has everyone forgotten simple manners? Saying please and thank you?
When a child is taught these simple things, there is an immediate, and positive, gratification for saying and doing the right thing.
XOXO
Me
I might be a logical person, but am good at chop~logic too.
hehehe
hehehe Sweetie- And I don't mind doing that every now and then either! (But I shall have to add "can of worms" to my tags here too).
ReplyDeleteBut would not the 'external' upbringing (that of societys role) negate the thoughts of how one was raised if it is so bad, even if they think it's normal for whatever reason?
See? By your own admission you took evil and changed the perpetuation of it.
And if you can do it then can't everyone?
I cannot imagine growing up the way you did. But you also grew above and beyond it all. And for that YOU are to be commended, and not anyone else.
Yes, it probably DOES take an entire village to raise a child. Even as small children we (should) learn that not everyone is kind in that village.
But unlike the way you were raised, all kindnesses should begin at home.
I am thinking the little boy who was left at the rest stop on the highway will probably miss the kindness he knew at home before his mama was shot.
XOXO
Me
Sweet PeachieBaby;
ReplyDeleteIf these same kids who blame their parents would also give them credit where credit is due, then perhaps this way of thinking would be a nonissue.
But they don't for whatever reason.
Blame? Credit? I think they both go hand in hand.
I believe you ARE referring to the death penalty. I agree. But then when we (as a "tolerant" society do not), there are many already in the system that can/do take matters into their own hands.
Case in point...
Wisconsin does not have the death penalty. But we did have Jeffrey Dahmer.
No more though.
It is simple human rights.
Dad always said that your own freedoms go only as far as the next persons begin.
Words of wisdom he had.
XOXO
Me
Odd isn't it Sweet SlurkieBaby, that whether we choose to do right or wrong, it all still falls under Free Will.
ReplyDeleteIt is as it should be.
You are right about our 'role' as parents too.
XOXO
Me
PS
I am wondering if your 'moves' were wrong, or maybe just "why" you did them?
Still, even if you learned anything from them, they are not a waste.
Thinking back I think that a combo of both moving AND the reason we moved were wrong. We moved because we were running. Running from overdue bills, evictions and just bad situations... The sad thing was, we jumped outta the frying pan and into the oven every time we moved.
ReplyDeleteWe moved from Ohio to Texas; stayed 6 months, things got ugly so we moved back to Ohio; stayed 3 or 4 months and things got ugly in Ohio again so we moved back to Texas, situation got bad again in TX (after about a year and a half) so we moved back to Ohio. We stayed in Ohio that time for almost 3 years and finally started to get our sh*t straight and then we made some bad choices and then made our final move here to Washington. Now I have to say that times have been tough and yes, I have thought about running back to Ohio but I have chosen to fight through it and TRY to make the s(h)ituation better...
And dang I miscounted I've moved cross-country 5 times...
I must be getting old...
hehehe
Love You!
Slurkie
I forgot about Jeffrey Dahmer. He was taken care of in prison very well indeed.
ReplyDeleteAnd I read that he had good parents. Never heard a bit of negativity about them. Dahmer pretty much shocked a lot of people with his behavior.
And Anne....your daddy spoke some wise words for sure.
"Dad always said that your own freedoms go only as far as the next persons begin." Too bad he never became a judge. He would have been a good one.
And Dahmers demise is proof of those words.
To answer your question. Yes, Ohio has the death penalty. I can think of more than a time or two that it was put to good use. Still though, whenever another up-n-coming is announced I get sick to my stomach. I am not against it, I just wish we didnt need it.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny that you bring up the village to raise a child. I homeschooled both of my children. And I know many other homeschoolers. One mom has a saying, "I've seen the village, I raise mine on my own."
ReplyDeleteNo one really knows how that good parents can raise children and they turn out "wrong" or have cr@ppy parents and their kid(s) make right choices. I happen to be one that turned right and a child went awry. :-( But the story is ever going. It can change.
You would think that the village would step in and help the child. Many people came to me, when I become an adult, confessing they knew about some or the abuse. Yet not one took a stand. GRRRRRRR
I take that stand even to the point of turning my own sister in for child abuse. I can not bare to see a child abused. There is a difference from abuse and discipline. And I think children do need discipline. How else would they know right from wrong?
Seems the line starts getting fuzzy.