[My] Life in Wisconsin

Health Care (No Fear, Only FACTS)


Hi Everyone!

This entry has taken quite a while to get these things together.

If you are truly interested in the "facts" of this Health Care bill, and not only in spreading innuendo, water cooler noise, or outright lies, then read on.
If not, it will be your childrens and grandchildrens loss if nothing gets done.

XOXO
Me

Most importantly would be to actually READ and COMPREHEND (understand), the bill that so many are trashing due simply to their ignorance of it, and their personal failure to ask the important and pertinent questions.

Again, here is the link to the bill.

http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf


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  • This isn't about politics.
  • This is about people's lives.
  • This is about people's businesses.
  • This is about our future.

********************

THE SECURITY YOU GET from health insurance reform:

    * No Discrimination for Pre-Existing Conditions

    * Insurance companies will be prohibited from refusing you coverage because of your medical history.


    * No Exorbitant Out-of-Pocket Expenses, Deductibles or Co-Pays

    * Insurance companies will have to abide by yearly caps on how much they can charge for out-of-pocket expenses.

    * No Cost-Sharing for Preventive Care

    * Insurance companies must fully cover, without charge, regular checkups and tests that help you prevent illness, such as mammograms or eye and foot exams for diabetics.

    * No Dropping of Coverage for Seriously Ill

    * Insurance companies will be prohibited from dropping or watering down insurance coverage for those who become seriously ill.

    * No Gender Discrimination

    * Insurance companies will be prohibited from charging you more because of your gender.

    * No Annual or Lifetime Caps on Coverage

    * Insurance companies will be prevented from placing annual or lifetime caps on the coverage you receive.

    * Extended Coverage for Young Adults

    * Children would continue to be eligible for family coverage through the age of 26.

    * Guaranteed Insurance Renewal

    * Insurance companies will be required to renew any policy as long as the policyholder pays their premium in full. Insurance companies won't be allowed to refuse renewal because someone became sick.

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"The health care fight has turned ugly, fast.
Right-wing mobs are crashing congressional town halls,  1
Lies are spreading via anonymous email chains, 2
Sarah Palin bizarrely said that President Obama was going to set up a "death panel," whatever that is. 3 "


Top Five Health Care Reform Lies

Lie #1: President Obama wants to euthanize your grandma!!!

The truth: These accusations—of "death panels" and forced euthanasia—are, of course, flatly untrue. As an article from the Associated Press puts it: "No 'death panel' in health care bill."  4

What's the real deal? Reform legislation includes a provision, to offer senior citizens access to a professional medical counselor who will provide them with information on preparing a living will and other issues facing older Americans. 5



Lie #2: Democrats are going to outlaw private insurance and force you into a government plan!!!

The truth: With reform, choices will increase, not decrease. Obama's reform plans will create a health insurance exchange, a one-stop shopping marketplace for affordable, high-quality insurance options. 6
Included in the exchange is the public health insurance option—a nationwide plan with a broad network of providers—that will operate alongside private insurance companies, injecting competition into the market to drive quality up and costs down. 7

If you're happy with your coverage and doctors, you can keep them. 8
But the new public plan will expand choices to millions of businesses or individuals who choose to opt into it, including many who simply can't afford health care now.



Lie #3: President Obama wants to implement Soviet-style rationing!

The truth:
Health care reform will expand access to high-quality health insurance, and give individuals, families, and businesses more choices for coverage. Right now, big corporations decide whether to give you coverage, what doctors you get to see, and whether a particular procedure or medicine is covered—that is rationed care. And a big part of reform is to stop that.

Health care reform will do away with some of the most nefarious aspects of this rationing: discrimination for pre-existing conditions, insurers that cancel coverage when you get sick, gender discrimination, and lifetime and yearly limits on coverage. 9
And outside of that, as noted above, reform will increase insurance options, not force anyone into a rationed situation.



Lie #4: Obama is secretly plotting to cut senior citizens' Medicare benefits!

The truth:
Health care reform plans will not reduce Medicare benefits. 10
Reform includes savings from Medicare that are unrelated to patient care—in fact, the savings comes from cutting billions of dollars in overpayments to insurance companies and eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse. 11



Lie #5:
Obama's health care plan will bankrupt America!!!

The truth:
We need health care reform now in order to prevent bankruptcy—to control spiraling costs that affect individuals, families, small businesses, and the American economy.

Right now, we spend more than $2 trillion dollars a year on health care.12 The average family premium is projected to rise to over $22,000 in the next decade 13—and each year, nearly a million people face bankruptcy because of medical expenses. 14 Reform, with an affordable, high-quality public option that can spur competition, is necessary to bring down skyrocketing costs. Also, President Obama's reform plans would be fully paid for over 10 years and not add a penny to the deficit. 15

Sources:
1. "More 'Town Halls Gone Wild': Angry Far Right Protesters Disrupt Events With 'Incomprehensible' Yelling," Think Progress, August 4, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51733&id=16782-14408432-3hODlCx&t=2
2. "Fight the smears," Health Care for America NOW, accessed August 10, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51729&id=16782-14408432-3hODlCx&t=3
3. "Palin Paints Picture of 'Obama Death Panel' Giving Thumbs Down to Trig," ABC News, August 7, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51728&id=16782-14408432-3hODlCx&t=4
4. "No 'death panel' in health care bill," The Associated Press, August 10, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51747&id=16782-14408432-3hODlCx&t=5
5. "Stop Distorting the Truth about End of Life Care," The Huffington Post, July 24, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51730&id=16782-14408432-3hODlCx&t=6
6. "Reality Check FAQs," WhiteHouse.gov, accessed August 11, 2009.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/faq#i1
7. "Why We Need a Public Health-Care Plan," The Wall Street Journal, June 24, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51737&id=16782-14408432-3hODlCx&t=7
8. "Obama: 'If You Like Your Doctor, You Can Keep Your Doctor,'" The Wall Street Journal, 15, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51736&id=16782-14408432-3hODlCx&t=8
9. "Reality Check FAQs," WhiteHouse.gov, accessed August 10, 2009.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/faq#r1
10. "Obama: No reduced Medicare benefits in health care reform," CNN, July 28, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51748&id=16782-14408432-3hODlCx&t=9
11. "Reality Check FAQs," WhiteHouse.gov, accessed August 10, 2009.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/faq#s1
12. "Reality Check FAQs," WhiteHouse.gov, accessed August 10, 2009.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/faq#c1
13. "Premiums Run Amok," Center for American Progress, July 24, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51667&id=16782-14408432-3hODlCx&t=10
14. "Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies," CNN, June 5, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51735&id=16782-14408432-3hODlCx&t=11
15. "Reality Check FAQs," WhiteHouse.gov, accessed August 10, 2009.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/faq#c1
Sources for the Five Lies:
#1: "A euthanasia mandate," The Washington Times, July 29, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51732&id=16782-14408432-3hODlCx&t=12
#2: "It's Not An Option," Investor's Business Daily, July 15, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51743&id=16782-14408432-3hODlCx&t=13
#3: "Rationing Health Care," The Washington Times, April 21, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51742&id=16782-14408432-3hODlCx&t=14
#4: "60 Plus Ad Is Chock Full Of Misinformation," Media Matters for America, August 8, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51734&id=16782-14408432-3hODlCx&t=15
#5: "Obama's 'Public' Health Plan Will Bankrupt the Nation," The National Review, May 13, 2009.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51744&id=16782-14408432-3hODlCx&t=16
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"This isn't about politics. This is about people's lives. This is about people's businesses. This is about our future."
President Barack Obama

********************

I have included a few comments found on a few of these links...

"Apparently some people don't even look into the proposed health care program before they open their mouths.
Check out the facts, instead of being afraid of change that very well might help you!"

"Hard to believe people actually think the government will have a death panel. We can thank people like limbaugh and beck for the anger. All they care about is ratings and will do anything to get it!"

"The GOP has lost their mind it is making them look like a bunch of silly babies."


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Want more? ~You should.
Check out this great new White House "Reality Check" website:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/
 

Health Insurance Reform Reality Check

Whether or not you have health insurance right now, the reforms we seek will bring stability and security that you don't have today.

Get the facts about the stability and security you get from health insurance reform.

********************

  • Reform will stop "rationing" - not increase it
Debunk[ing] the myth that reform will mean a "government takeover" of health care or lead to "rationing."
To the contrary, reform will forbid many forms of rationing that are currently being used by insurance companies.
    


  • The "euthanasia" distortion on help for families
Debunk[ing] the malicious myth that reform would encourage or even require euthanasia for seniors.



  • Vets' health care is safe and sound
Matt Flavin, Director of Veterans and Wounded Warrior Policy, explains that nothing in health insurance reform will affect veterans' access to the care they get now.
To the contrary, the President's budget greatly expands coverage for veterans who have been denied access in the past.



  • Reform will benefit small business - not burden it
Debunk[ing] the myth that health insurance reform will hurt small businesses.
To the contrary, reform will ease the burdens on small businesses and help level the playing field with big firms who pay much less to cover their employees on average.



  • Your Medicare is safe, and stronger with reform
Debunk[ing] the myth that Health Insurance Reform would be financed by cutting Medicare benefits.
To the contrary, reform would simply eliminate waste and unnecessary subsidies to insurance companies.



  • You can keep your own insurance
Debunk[ing] the myth that reform will force you out of your current insurance plan or force you to change doctors.
To the contrary, reform will expand your choices, not eliminate them.


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Health insurance reform FAQs  
http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/faq

Contact the White House: 
http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/contact

For more information, visit HealthReform.gov 
Also includes link to Español  http://www.whitehouse.gov/spanish/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/
http://m.factcheck.org/2009/07/false-euthanasia-claims/


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Please just educate yourselves already!
(That means taking the time to read the bill,
& past whatever seems convenient to your own suppositions).


Know that I have tried to check (and double~check) the links above.
Please let me know if I have inadvertently screwed up hehehe
If I have, please nclude the link(s) to where, and how.


XOXO
Me

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Last but not least, my gratitude to Senator Herb Kohl, my own senator, for writing to dispel many errors to this controversy.


  • *Here is his note to his constituents, in its entirety:

Over the past several months, people in Washington have been working to carefully craft a health care reform package. Though progress has been steady, there are still several proposals in flux. Please be aware that neither the House nor the Senate has formulated one bill, and that no final decisions have been made about what will be included in health reform.

Most of us agree that reforming and improving our health care system is necessary, and we cannot afford to wait another 10 or 20 years until health care costs consume an even greater percentage of the economy and the budgets of American families.

Consider this: The United States spends $7,290 on health care per person, per year - while the average spent by the 30 most developed countries is $2,960. It is unacceptable that we have so much more of our money tied up in health care, yet we are not delivering demonstrably better health care than many of these countries. Studies show that the U.S. ranks below average on major health indicators, including infant mortality and life expectancy, when compared with the rest of the world.

We currently rank 44th in infant mortality and 30th in life expectancy, with the average American living to 78 years of age. By comparison, Japan spends $2,550 on health care per person each year - just over a third of what the U.S. spends - and boasts a life expectancy of 83 years.

There is no doubt that American health care is breaking the bank and making us less competitive in the world economy. Money that should be going to wage increases and helping to make our businesses more competitive is instead going to pay for increases in health care costs. This will not change until we get a handle on those costs.

Controlling costs is a goal we can all support in principle, especially when other countries have demonstrated that quality health care can be delivered at a much lower cost. We can start controlling costs by paying for value of care, not volume, and eliminating duplicative testing and over-treatment. If we can do that, then our health care system - and America's patients - will be in better shape. We need to ensure that all health care systems provide better care in a more efficient way, and reward those systems that already do so, such as the ones we have in several locations in Wisconsin.

America's health systems should expand the use of health information technology, which has been shown to save lives by reducing medical errors and save money by promoting efficiency in testing and communication. We can support the use of generic drugs and get generic equivalents on the market faster. And we can encourage Americans to engage in preventive care and healthy lifestyles.

Many of these money-saving ideas are not controversial. The fact is that there is a lot that we can all agree on. We agree that we need to expand coverage to most, if not all, Americans. We also agree that people should not be denied insurance because of pre-existing conditions. The principles we agree on far outnumber those on which we differ.

In addition to saving costs, health reform can do so much good for the average American. We want to limit your out-of-pocket expenses and co-pays. We want to make sure your coverage is not dropped just when you get sick and need it most. We want to eliminate caps on coverage, offer free preventive care and protect small businesses from the crushing costs of health care.

Despite all these positive changes that will benefit individual Americans, the debate surrounding health care threatens to get out of hand. False reports about what will be included in health care reform have taken on a life of their own. We need to strip away the rhetoric and dispel some of these rumors, many of which are meant to scare older Americans.

The most important thing for seniors to know is that health care reform will not diminish Medicare, the health care program those 65 and older have come to value. As we all know, Medicare provides older Americans with quality health care at a cost that is affordable.

Seniors are happy with Medicare. In fact, Medicare, a government-run program, boasts a satisfaction rate even higher than private insurance. The reform proposals to date are intended to strengthen Medicare, and will not make any significant changes to the way seniors receive their health care services.

As for the rumors out there about how health care will be drastically changed for the worse, you can rest assured: Health care reform will not limit choices, take away treatment options, ration care, eliminate private insurance, or tell you how or when to die. These things are not going to happen.

In the meantime, we hear you. We hear your needs and we hear your concerns. Your perspectives are invaluable, and we will continue to keep American families in mind as we work to complete a health reform package that starts to get costs under control, continues to provide high quality care, and begins to expand coverage to include most, if not all, Americans.
Sincerely,
Herb Kohl
http://kohl.senate.gov/index.cfm



54 comments:

  1. Now Anne.. I know we need reform.. I know the insurance companies need to be reeled in because they are a bunch of ... well.. we all know what they are.

    Do I believe Obama wants to set up death panels? NO I don't. But there will be a bureaucratic panel set up to decide your value as a person and then those bureaucrats will decide if its feasible to treat you or not. Thats what Im against. I don't want anyone in Washington or Anyplace else for that matter making decisions for my doctor.

    No rationed health care? Well.. no it wont be rationed per say but when you take the profits away from doctors or their ability to pay their employees because the government has limited the amount which can be charged for services.. well then by attrition you will lose doctors and losing doctors means less people can be seen. Just a fact of economics.

    Also one of Obama's advisers.. said.. Those between the ages of 15 to 40 should receive preferential treatment .. those under get less and those older get less. Now frankly as an older population.. this scares the begeebers out of me! I think.. my opinion mind you, It should scare you as well!

    Also in the bill it does say you dont have to switch to the government plan but .. now think about this.. A small business owner.. because he is being taxed out of business in order to save his business decides to eliminate healthcare coverage to his employees.. These employees will now switch over to the government plan.. and in many cases I can see employers in order to save money just pushing this to happen.. because they can and it helps their business ta boot. Again pure economics!

    Oh and if you read the bill.

    http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf

    (no I havent read it all.. its not an easy read)

    if the health insurance plan put forth by your employer doesnt meet certain criteria.. then that health care will not be considered valid and you will be able to keep it but you must also take the government plan.. Read page 16-18 of the bill.. you will see what Im talking about.

    Also they have said in order to pay for a portion of this they will be taking money from medicare and medicaid.. So yes.. in a round about way.. they are cutting services to these in order to pay for the new one. Yes some fraud and waste can be cut.. but not the amount they are claiming. I have yet seen the government predictions be accurate.
    Again pure economics if you take money from one gov program to pay for another then the one losing money loses coverage.

    My main concern... is the term government run health care. Government run?????? Thanks but no thanks. It is not the job of the government to run business or health care. It is not the job of the government to provide welfare.

    I realize I am in the minority here.. Most do feel it is the job of the government to provide for the people.. But its not.. no place in the constitution or in the bill of rights does it say they provide.

    But if you accept aid from anyone whether its the government or your neighbor or your mother then you accept the idea that they can tell you how, when, where and what you can do. I have issues with this.

    I want LESS government .. not MORE!

    I dont want government running car companies or banks or my health insurance!


    Speaking of running car companies.. in a few years.. you wont be able to buy a used car because of the government run "Cash for Clunkers"..

    ReplyDelete
  2. Where did you read that?

    *************************


    Health reform will benefit seniors in many ways:

    * We are committed to shrinking the donut hole in Medicare Part D that has forced so many seniors—more than 4 million every year—to pay exorbitant costs out of pocket or go without the drugs they need.

    * We are also committed to creating a pathway for the approval of generic biologic drugs. Cutting-edge biologic medications are currently very expensive and are out of reach for many seniors. It is important to make generic versions of these drugs available as soon as possible.

    * For those of you who retire between the ages of 55 and 64, health reform will provide financial assistance to employer health plans that cover early retirees, bringing down health costs and premiums by as much as $1,200 per family per year for some plans.

    * We want to strengthen preventive care under Medicare—no co-payments for checkups and wellness visits. Much of the money we spend on health care goes to treat chronic diseases which could be prevented from becoming more serious if patients received more preventive care. Preventive care is especially important for seniors, because it will increase the chance that your doctor can catch an illness in its early stages.

    * Most importantly, by reducing waste and improving the efficiency of Medicare, the Administration will strengthen the program to be sure it is always there for you and the generations to come. As you know, the Medicare Trust fund is projected to run out of money in about 8 years. Health insurance reform would extend the life of the fund for additional years—through at least 2022—and give it greater stability and security.

    end quote

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  3. I do believe that paying doctors for quality is much more important than paying them by the # of patients they see.

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  4. Well it might bother me IF it was in the bill.
    Otherwise it is only hearsay and fear.

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  5. need to go for a bit- Casey has just gotten here

    XOXO
    me

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  6. I've read every line of Obama's proposed health care bill and I can't say that I disagree with one word. Bring it on. The only problem is even if Congress votes 'yes' according to Obama it will take 4 to 5 years to put the new legislation into effect. I worry about how many sick people will die in that amount of time because they couldn't afford ANY health care. Because of that, I think if the new health care bill becomes a reality it should go into effect immediately. And, I also think that effective today, any kid who is thinking about becoming a doctor should only go to Med school if they truly want to help sick people, not because they want to become mega-millionaires. Somewhere along the way becoming a doctor has become more about making money than healing people - and that's screwed up!!

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  7. Amen! Totally agree with you here. It seems as though doctors today are only in it for the obscene amounts of money they make. It shouldn't be about the money it should be about the type and amount of care that is given to the sick...

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  8. Thats not what I meant.. quality over quanity is always a good thing. But the facts are if you add more to the doctor the quality will go down or.. due to many more with the ability to see doctors the number of patients a doctor has to treat could triple..
    By shear numbers its gonna cause a rationing.. due to supply and demand. Too many patients and not enough doctors. That has not been addressed at all.. so far.

    Now.. if they put in incentives for young people to go into the medical field.. do something about tort reform (thus reducing the malpractice insurance doctors must pay) then just maybe we could increase the number of doctors and even some of the cost.

    I have found most doctors are good decent men and woman and really do try their best but ya know there are always those who are in it strickly for the money.

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  9. No its not in the bill currently .. but the scary part is the advice is being given and accepted as valid.
    Since a real version of this bill has not yet been ... ratified ?? .. lots of amendments can be added in.

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  10. No you are not in the minority here. I totally agree with you. Myself, I feel this whole health care reform is a joke and I really hope it does NOT pass. I was pleased to see so many people protesting or demanding that their elected officials listen to THEIR CONSTIUENTS and vote it down. They should listen to the people and do what's best for them, not do what's best for the "party". The whole thing is one big joke as far as I'm concerned...and I'm not alone in that way of thinking either.

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  11. Anne I agree with you! (but I bet you knew that)

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  12. Dear sister, bless you for your courage, insight and willingness to fight the folks who would rather emote than look for real facts and information. Your personal insight due to your own health struggles and in particular KC's, speak louder than words. No one complains about Medicare but then they wail against any government assisted system. kinda silly. For myself (a former 'government employee' of 25 yrs) i've had to pay $14,000 for 18 months of COBRA coverage. Anybody who thinks that's a 'deal' is welcome to it. Give me Medicare any day.
    love you lots,
    kris

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  13. I could find no place within the bill that consists of the words "government run"
    To add these words only propagates the fear I speak of.

    If you are referring to Medicare or Medicaid, then, roughly translated, those words would both be that.
    Although I do not know JT's age, I am guessing he receives Medicare.
    And am wondering what would have happened had he not had Medicare when he had his heart attack?

    XOXO
    Me

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  14. Dear Everyone;
    RE; highlighted words above
    In my little opinion, Senator Herb Kohl has summed up, very neatly here, almost all the fears propagated by the unwise who spread outright lies in emails that have NO FOUNDATION whatsoever.

    All the rest of the (TRUE) information can be found above, or within any of the corresponding links.

    Again, would y'all just take the time to read and understand this bill before you commit yourselves to being ridiculed and [debunked]

    Love to all

    XOXO
    Me

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  15. Not fair Sweetie!
    Duck Duck Goose, and I can't play because I cannot just jump up and run.
    hehehe

    XOXO
    Me

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  16. Still "hehehe~ing over Oka too!

    XOXO
    Me

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  17. It just HAS to be passed, irregardless of what my uninformed emails say.
    I refuse to pass those on...

    XOXO
    Me

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  18. Sweet SissyKrissiePoo;
    I love you too ya know!
    And you know I have never been a political type person- I always voted, but only on my own terms and what I considered to be relevant to me and mine.
    This whole bill hits so close to home for many many Americans.
    And those that berate it have never felt any of the injustices asterisked above. They have had their own insurances in place, have never had anything major go wrong, and have never had to fight for any of it.

    After my last two visits to the hospital, (Monday and yesterday respectively), I am not complaining about Medicare- And it's high time I got this out in the open too-
    I am disabled, and therefore qualify for Medicare at 51. So now y'all know that much about me.
    My employer of 20 years did not provide insurances. I paid out of pocket, upwards of $500.00 month just for me to be covered in the '90's. To say that I could have then afforded better food, or hey even a few pairs of jeans would be obvious.

    About you- And COBRA, I am thinking that $14~Grand would have been a really great deal *IF* you would have had the foresight to have had heart failure (or fart hailure).
    (Otherwise, you have just gotten screwed without being kissed).

    In my own lifetime, I have had to fight for my own insurance... (My complete hysterectomy, and other procedures leading up to that all).
    I paid $5~Grand+ for that even WITH insurance. Go figure.

    As you know, Casey was removed from her sires insurance (at his insistence), and BECAUSE she had been hospitalized while in college. (Figure THAT one out too, please).

    They would NOT have been able to do that IF this plan had already been in place. So the interim, (between the insurance and before her BIA kicked in), I paid OUT OF POCKET, over 70~Grand to cover just a few surgeries of hers.
    No damn wonder I am so bloody broke-
    Do NOT misunderstand, I would rather be damned broke than not have her here.

    You too.

    XOXO
    Me

    ReplyDelete
  19. He did not have medicare when he had his heart attack.. we had excellant insurance and out of pocket we probably spent overall.. a total of about $1000. that includes doctors appointments and prescriptions.

    I now dont have the same insurance and JT can pick up medicare.. currently he only has hospitalization.

    It is government run.. no in the bill it doesnt speak those words per say but when you have all those in charge reporting to the senate.. which it does say.. that makes it government run.

    You are correct in that we need reform.. but the things I have read in this bill... So far at any rate.. I am not fond of. Now once the Senate has a chance to make some reforms and with a few amendments.. I might find it acceptable. I am trying really hard to keep an open mind on it.. Im trying really hard not to poopoo the entire thing. Because I realize that something needs to change in regards to medical coverage for Americans.

    Now one thing I absolutely oppose.. is making this heathcare available to anyone whether they are a citizen or not. Might as well say "ok world ya'll all come on to the USA and get free medical coverage while the stupid American pays the bill" I have a real issue with this concept.

    My problem with this blog.. is you are sooooooooo adamantly for it that you are not looking past to see some of the parts that are not so friendly towards older folks and you are not looking at some of the other stuff that it includes that really just burns many of us to the point of .. we aint gonna listen no way no how.

    Now you have to think about some of the consequences that will come about because of it.. yes I think a good medical coverage plan would be good.. but logic says.. cause and effect.. you have to look further than just what these guys are saying and look at the effect that will come about.

    I guess I just dont like this administration.. I dont like those in Congress with a few exceptions (very few) I dont trust them.. Not one is a business man (most are lawyers) they are politicians and they will say and do anything to get a vote. I dont believe they have the best interest in mind for the American people but instead for their own self only.

    So to blindly accept what they say.. I will not do it.. You can post links til the day is blue but its from them.. and I dont trust them!

    ReplyDelete
  20. Sweetie;
    I apologize. I really thought that my openness of having Medicare for myself would negate those thoughts. ie; That I am now considered, (for all legal intents/purposes), one of the "older folks". This, simply because I DO have Medicare.

    So please keep your open mind. I wear those same shoes you know.
    (And now the whole world knows this too).

    But I also admit that I am NOT the only American that this will pertain to. So to me, the end justifies the means.

    To do nothing is the equivalent of sentencing too many people to death. And for that, for those people, (babies, children, adults AND "older" people), this bill has my approval.
    Those preventable deaths- (which Casey would have been a statistic of had things not transpired as they did for us), simplify the exact "cause and effect" you write of.
    Many people would NOT have had any savings to redirect toward medical spending. I did. (And I did not bat an eye to spend it either).

    Does that make me adamant about it? Oh, yes it does.
    But you say that like it's a bad thing?
    It is not.

    Then again, you say you are trying to keep an open mind...
    Then you add, "we aint gonna listen no way no how."
    Which is it?

    Will I stand and make a complete asshole of myself screeching and hollering and swearing at town hall meetings and the like? I have much more pride than that.
    And if there is anything to add to those fiascos, it is only that they are swaying people AGAINST them.

    XOXO
    Me

    ReplyDelete
  21. JT was very fortunate TO have had excellent insurance, and no one is dnying that.

    But what about those who cannot have it; due to they are unable to pay, their employers do not offer any plans.
    THOSE are the people that I am, and this bill is "for".

    In his nationally televised news conference on July 22, 2009, President Barack Obama cited a dramatic statistic to emphasize the need for health care reform. He said, “If we don't act, 14,000 Americans will continue to lose their health insurance every single day.”

    ********
    NOTE:
    ... tracked down Urban Institute health care scholar John Holahan, whose work was cited in the Center for American Progress study, [and whose figures President Obama sited above].

    Holahan was the co-author, with A. Bowen Garrett, of the January 2009 study, “Rising Unemployment, Medicaid and the Uninsured,” published by the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured. That study provided the underpinning for the Center for American Progress report by estimating how many people can expect to lose their insurance when the national unemployment rate goes up.

    Holahan and his co-author, using a baseline of 4.6 percent unemployment in 2007, calculated that 2.6 million people would lose coverage if the unemployment rate climbed to 7 percent; 3.7 million if it went to to 8 percent; 4.8 million at 9 percent; and 5.8 million at 10 percent. The estimates took into account people who lost their jobs but then switched to a spouse’s plan or extended their coverage through COBRA, the federal law that guarantees people who lose their job can still get continued health coverage.

    Applying Holahan's calculations to the actual rise in unemployment from November 2008 to June 2009, we came up with 3.2 million people losing health coverage, or an average of 15,238 per day, so it is close to the 14,000 Obama cited."


    ********

    Maybe JT's timing was perfect enough that he never did have to worry about losing his health insurance. And for you and especially for himself, that is a very good thing!

    Citing the fact that our president grossly UNDERstated the # of people losing their insurance EVEY DAY... More than 335,200+ people have lost their insurance since he spoke those words in July.
    How many more will not be as fortunate as JT before something actually gets done then?

    Just because you, I, and JT have adequate coverage does not give us license to say "too bad, so sad" to the rest of our American brothers and sisters.
    To do so would be unforgivable.

    XOXO
    Me

    ReplyDelete


  22. As do I.

    And I further have a problem with all the donations etc from Americans going out to any other countries, and all the expense involved with that.

    As the bill implies, we need to take care of our own first.

    Now where did you find that the part about the citizenship?
    I agree that anyone should be able to obtain healthcare in the event of of a life/death situation.
    Yet as recent as yesterday, President Obama has also admitted that there IS something very wrong about the masses of people that are [trying to] get in.
    It is something that he has admitted, and hopefully will be challenged and fixed.

    XOXO
    me

    ReplyDelete

  23. Here are the words in the bill pertinent to your claim:

    SEC. 242. AFFORDABLE CREDIT ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUAL.
    (1) IN GENERAL.
    For purposes of this division, the term affordable credit eligible individual means, subject to subsection (b), an individual who is lawfully present in a State in the United States (other than as a nonimmigrant described in a sub-paragraph (excluding subparagraphs (K), (T), (U), and (V)) of section 101(a)(15) of the Immigration
    and Nationality Act) 20

    ReplyDelete
  24. I would never do that.. As I have said.. I am really hoping that this new health care thing is a good one.. Right now.. other than cobra.. I have no insurance. Brought on by my own doings.
    I really really do hope that this Congress can figure out something that is affordable and doable.. This is why I have said.. Im really really trying to keep an open mind about it all.

    Until I have read the entire document.. I will not say its not good.. I only have talking points from both sides of the fence. Neither of which give me much hope.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Sweet Pam;
    Sorry but I missed your comment here earlier. I assure you it was an oversight..



    ***********************

    Here are a few comments from Senator Royce's meeting (with the dracula and nazi crap). http://www.about.com/


    August 9, 2009 at 8:17 pm
    (1) Ally says:
    I used to be a Republican. I voted for Bush one time. In my college days I volunteered for Feminists for Life. But my conscience couldn’t let me keep working for a party who regularly looks over the less fortunate in out world.


    August 9, 2009 at 8:36 pm
    (2) John Ballard says:
    My one regret from the Civil Rights era is that I never spent a night in jail. I wish now that I had so I could brag about it to my grandchildren. Picketing and getting tossed out of my apartment wasn’t nearly as dramatic.
    I’m thinking that someday you will be able to brag about getting booed and shouted down at that meeting.


    August 10, 2009 at 12:01 am
    (3) Sean says:
    I am a Conservative and will be the FIRST to say this is abhorrent. There is plenty to discuss without having to go into the gutter to make your point.

    I completely disagree with the government’s hand in anything. That includes Medicare, though it happened before my time.

    The fact that Medicare works and now may be expanded to everyone should be cause for concern. Regardless, one would hope that fringe folk on both sides would be denounced… like Speaker pelosi and HER nazi comment about me.


    August 10, 2009 at 9:42 am
    (4) Disgusted says:
    Thanks for covering this.
    By saying nothing, Royce becomes a co-conspirator with the lunatic fringe.

    While he’s not as flat-out wacky as Rohrabacher and John Campbell, he’s playing along with a party that has been taken over by an anti-intellectual group of Southern bigots.

    Intellectuals, moderates, and pragmatists aren’t welcome in the modern Republican party, whose real leaders are Beck, Limbaugh, and Palin.


    August 10, 2009 at 1:25 pm
    (5) Mrs. Robles says:
    Where, or where is the Republican Party I can love? I want the sane, reasonable, smart Republican Party back.

    I cannot stand by the Republicans now. The birthers, the fear mongers, the flat out crazies spouting all sorts of nonsense (like Obama wanting to kill the elderly of this country). Really?!!?!?
    I hope the Party comes to its senses and starts speaking the truth for once and not all the other nonsense. Tell us what is truly wrong with the new Health Plan. Give us the dollars and cents. The reasonable arguments. I WANT TO KNOW.
    Until then, I cannot listen to the other nonsense.


    August 12, 2009 at 2:22 am
    (6) bshuler says:
    Like the rest of you, I am deeply concerned about the Republican party. I am a Democrat, but married a Republican — I’m not threatened by a difference of opinions. This is NOT the Republican party of the Reagan era, though. The radical right-wing press spews hate and fear continuously. Give us your opinions on health care, etc., but don’t call us Nazis, Socialists, Elder-Killers, etc.!! We’ve truly lost the ability to debate issues intelligently. My theory is that this hate-mongering started when the religious right got a strangle-hold on the Republican party. There must be a fringe element there that reasons: “God is on my side, so every Democrat is EVIL!” I found it interesting to watch the parties’ conventions last summer. The Republicans supported a woman candidate, while the Democrats discussed fiscal responsibility and family values. We balance each other out, but there is no balance in this HATE/FEAR rhetoric. This Republican lambast is like the cry of a dying party. We need a sane, sober, approachable party to help nurture our great country.


    August 13, 2009 at 5:34 pm
    (7) Moonwood says:

    ReplyDelete
  26. The links I posted were strictly for verification purposes and for no other reason.
    Well, except for the link to H. R. 3200
    That is after all the ONLY link we really are talking about.
    And there it is in black and white, just waiting to be read and understood.

    I find it almost sad that only one of you has taken the time to read it and yet have many comments about it.
    Doesn't seem right if we are to agree or disagree intelligently.

    XOXO
    Me

    ReplyDelete

  27. Sweet Beep;
    I believe you would not do that either.
    I also think that the proposed 65% reduction in COBRA would help you, (and those in your shoes), immensely.
    Just a thought.

    Happy reading my friend!

    XOXO
    Me


    ReplyDelete
  28. I can make my own intelligent opinion and decision without reading pages of legal mumbo-jumbo.

    ReplyDelete
  29. As I stated above, I have read and researched what i have posted.
    Please do not include me as just a "talker" here. I have cited everything from nuts to bolts for the proof anyone needs.

    XOXO
    Me

    ReplyDelete

  30. Perhaps I should have just said uninformed then.
    One simply cannot make rational decisions based merely on hearsay.
    That is called speculation for a reason.

    XOXO
    Me

    ReplyDelete
  31. Sorry but I am NOT uninformed.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Anne, this question is not really for you but all the doubters on "government run" insurance.

    Several say that want health care reform, but not government run. Who the hell else is going to reform it for more than one group???????????? Insurances companies aren't going to do it until the government makes them do it. So who is going to do a complete healthcare reform? Please explain this to me...

    ReplyDelete
  33. *sits down with a bowl of popcorn, waiting and watching*

    ReplyDelete
  34. Well.. until I have muddled through the entire mess.. I will not make a judgement for sure one way or the other..

    I love ya Anne.. but I must see for myself. I know stubborn aint I..hehe

    ReplyDelete
  35. I sure wish I had an answer for that one.. I think maybe thats the 40 million dollar question.

    Everytime I think of an answer I dont like the answer. One way the government runs it.. the other the government tells a business how to do business.. and in another the government puts restrictions on how the insurance co.. charge and pay out and who they insure..

    Its like its a catch 22.. danged if you do and danged if you dont.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Mama always said, "If you can't be right, be wrong at the top of your lungs."

    The following definition (of what you say you are not) is almost 400 years old.

    un·in·formed (ŭn'ĭn-fôrmd')
    adj. Not having, showing, or making use of information...

    Word Origin & History

    UNINFORMED

    Originally in ref. to some specific matter or subject; general sense of "uneducated, ignorant" is recorded from 1647.



    Whereas, specualtion and conjecture would be thus:

    CONJECTURE: (even older)...
      /kənˈdʒɛktʃər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuhn-jek-cher] Show IPA noun, verb, -tured, -tur⋅ing.

    –noun
    1. the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.
    2. an opinion or theory so formed or expressed; guess; speculation.
    3. Obsolete. the interpretation of signs or omens.
    –verb (used with object)
    4. to conclude or suppose from grounds or evidence insufficient to ensure reliability.
    –verb (used without object)
    5. to form conjectures.

    Origin:
    1350–1400; (n.) ME < L conjectūra (< MF) inferring, reasoning, equiv. to conject(us) ptp. of conjicere to throw together, form a conclusion (con- con- + -jicere, comb. form of jacere to throw) + -ūra -ure; (v.) late ME conjecturen (< MF) < LL conjecturāre, deriv. of the n.

    Related forms:
    con⋅jec⋅tur⋅a⋅ble, adjective
    con⋅jec⋅tur⋅a⋅bly, adverb
    con⋅jec⋅tur⋅er, noun

    Synonyms:
    2. surmise, inference, supposition, theory, hypothesis. 4. surmise, suppose, presume. See "guess".
    Dictionary.com Unabridged

    I will not simply "guess" my way through all of this.
    You either read the bill so you know what you speak of, or remain, um, sadly uninformed.


    XOXO
    Me

    PS
    I must agree with you on the fact that this is written as only attorneys could understand.
    But, there are many MANY online references available for you to simplify any "mumbo jumbo" that may not be so easily understood.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Sweet Oka;
    Perfect. Perfect. Perfect!!!
    For someone who would rather ignore all this crap, (and I don't blame you for that), you have asked a simplistic, yet VERY IMPORTANT question!
    (Stands, and applauds). OK, so I rose a bit in my chair...

    Of course the insurance companies won't do it-
    They are making TRILLIONS off both the ill and incapacitated, and off the WELL people also! (Remember AIG)?
    In my own little corner of the world, we have Blue Cross (Anthem) in Appleton, AAL, in Appleton, Humana aka Employers Health, in Green Bay and DePere, and AMS (Amerian Medical Securities) in Green Bay- To name ONLY a few!
    ALL of these companies would have to "adjust" their schedules etc. if this HealthCare is implemented.
    It is a tale of rich getting richer- Off our dimes!

    And so, it is up to "We, the people", AND our representatives in DC to do the very best they can for everyone.

    Plain and simple, that is exactly what this plan does.

    Love to you for being so practical and pragmatic!

    XOXO
    Me

    Have I mentioned you have asked a PERFECT question?!?!

    ReplyDelete

  38. I happen to love your little old stubbornness Sweet Beep!
    So do not ever think that is a negative thing.

    I also happen to KNOW that you will make the effort and take the time to read it all, and to check and double check my own links.
    And that is all I asked for up front.

    Love to you

    XOXO
    Me

    ReplyDelete
  39. Additionally, and as my title has stated...

    "FACT"
    noun

    1. That which is known about a specific subject or situation. Used in plural: data, information, intelligence, knowledge, lore. See "knowledge"

    2. Something having real, demonstrable existence: actuality, event, phenomenon, reality.

    3. One of the conditions or facts attending an event and having some bearing on it: circumstance, detail, factor, particular.

    4. The quality of being actual or factual: actuality, factuality, factualness, reality, truth.

    ***************************

    Is that not what we all need?

    XOXO
    Me

    ReplyDelete
  40. Here are just a few...

    Part C—Administrative Simplification
    DEFINITIONS
    http://www.ssa.gov/

    OR,

    http://aspe.hhs.gov

    ************************************************

    Any of the above (or written within the bill itself) that you still may not understand, may easily be googled.
    Literally, there are thousands of legitimate sites to help you out.


    XOXO
    Me

    ReplyDelete

  41. Theory and fact...


    A fact is a proposition of which the verification by an appeal to the primary sources of our knowledge or to experience is direct and simple. A theory, on the other hand, if true, has all the characteristics of a fact except that its verification is possible only by indirect, remote, and difficult means.

    Author: Chauncey Wright (1830–1875), U.S. philosopher.
    Originally published in North American Review (1865). “The Philosophy of Herbert Spencer,” repr. In Philosophical Writings of Chauncey Wright pp. 4-5 (1963).

    ReplyDelete
  42. Thanks again for trying to keep the debate informed rather than an 'emote-fest'... I still can't understand in my lil pea brain how everyone loves Medicare but hates the thought of gov't run healthcare... HUH?
    by the way, i was forced to pay for the 18 months of COBRA so that in the end i would be eligible for the state insurance HIRSP (cheaper and accepts pre-existing conditions like my 'liberalism'). Judy has 'cheap' insurance but of course to get that she has a $20,000 deductible. Also have your fans drive by the Corporate Headquarters for American Family Insurance in Madison. HUGE buildings, HUGE grounds all built from their 30% plus profits rather than reducing costs to consumers..

    ReplyDelete
  43. Dear Liberalism,
    Yu made me laugh at your comparison of govt run and Medicare. (I haven't EVER heard of ANYONE giving up their Medicare, have you)?
    Apples and oranges my dear.

    You would only have to drive to DePere and Howard and Appleton to see the insurance buildings there too. All paid for by you and I...

    Am thinking Judy Judy Judy had better have a heart attack too... Or wait a while on that. 'Til after this bill passes.

    Now this:

    "If by a “Liberal” they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a “Liberal,” then I’m proud to say I’m a “Liberal.” ~ John F. Kennedy, 1960

    Of course we were just too young to know anything then.

    XOXO
    Me

    ReplyDelete
  44. We all deserve good health care at reasonable cost. Period. Always be suspicious of people who try to scare you or anger you with sound bites and statements that don't contain any concrete facts. Read the bills and ask questions!!!

    ReplyDelete
  45. Oh My God Sweet Lisa!
    You have simplified my blog in a grand way! I thank you!!!
    That is all I wanted people to do in the first place, irregardless of their political persuasions or prejudices.

    The bill is simply about LIFE.
    And I have read it. (Hell, I have lived it)!

    Miss you!
    And SO happy that you are still around!

    XOXO
    Me

    PS
    I had one gal that wanted FACTS, and when she got them she boohooed them because they were written by the government. wtf? (So I told her to go read the Nat'l Inquirer).

    Furthermore, she refused not only to think about it, but would not even take the time to read and (try to) understand it.

    Why are people so ignorant?
    -----------------Going to have to get philosophical now...
    Can people truly be self righteous AND ignorant at the same time?

    GOD BLESS THOSE OF YOU IN OUR SCHOOL SYSTEMS that have to teach children
    Please be sure to teach them the difference between ignorance and stupidity.
    (One of those is an insult; the other can be remedied).

    ReplyDelete
  46. So, some of us are insulting??? hehe

    ReplyDelete
  47. This has been proven over the past few days Anne!

    hehehe

    ReplyDelete
  48. The above comment, referring only to the following post.
    http://flintville.multiply.com/journal/item/844

    Love to all

    XOXO
    Me

    ReplyDelete
  49. I see many visitors here, but no comments from them.
    I can only HOPE that they are passing this information on.
    (Judging from their sites, I am guessing they are)!

    That is a very good thing!

    XOXO
    Anne

    "Once again.
    The goals of health care reform are
    1) to cover everyone,
    and 2) to slow the growth in health care costs so that health care is affordable.
    So what truly is the problem?" end quote

    ReplyDelete
  50. Tired of the crap yet?
    Tired of people trying to drive drivel into your heads with asinine BS, and unable to prove where they got it from?

    Send those uninformed, erroneous emails, e~addresses, sites, and links on!

    "There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there.
    If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to FLAG@WHITEHOUSE.GOV

    A bit Orwellian, but it is high time to get rid of the BS.
    XOXO,
    Me

    ReplyDelete