[My] Life in Wisconsin

Corn vs Coal

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-12/su-evg121409.php
Ethanol, often promoted as a clean-burning, renewable fuel that could help wean the nation from oil, would likely worsen health problems caused by ozone, compared with gasoline, especially in winter, according to a new study led by Stanford researchers.

Ozone production from both gasoline and E85, a blend of gasoline and ethanol that is 85 percent ethanol, is greater in warm sunny weather than during the cold weather and short days of winter, because heat and sunlight contribute to ozone formation. But E85 produces different byproducts of combustion than gasoline and generates substantially more aldehydes, which are precursors to ozone.

"What we found is that at the warmer temperatures, with E85, there is a slight increase in ozone compared to what gasoline would produce," said Diana Ginnebaugh, a doctoral candidate in civil and environmental engineering, who worked on the study. She will present the results of the study on Tuesday, Dec. 15, at the American Geophysical Union meeting in San Francisco. "But even a slight increase is a concern, especially in a place like Los Angeles, because you already have episodes of high ozone that you have to be concerned about, so you don't want any increase."

But it was at colder temperatures, below freezing, that it appeared the health impacts of E85 would be felt most strongly.

"We found a pretty substantial increase in ozone production from E85 at cold temperatures, relative to gasoline when emissions and atmospheric chemistry alone were considered," Ginnebaugh said. Although ozone is generally lower under cold-temperature winter conditions, "If you switched to E85, suddenly you could have a place like Denver exceeding ozone health-effects limits and then they would have a health concern that they don't have now."

The problem with cold weather emissions arises because the catalytic converters used on vehicles have to warm up before they reach full efficiency. So until they get warm, a larger proportion of pollutants escapes from the tailpipe into the air.

There are other pollutants that would increase in the atmosphere from burning E85 instead of gasoline, some of which are irritants to eyes, throats and lungs, and can also damage crops, but the aldehydes are the biggest contributors to ozone production, as well as being carcinogenic.

Ginnebaugh worked with Mark Z. Jacobson, professor of civil and environmental engineering, using vehicle emissions data from some earlier studies and applying it to the Los Angeles area to model the likely output of pollutants from vehicles.

Because E85 is only now beginning to be used in mass-produced vehicles, the researchers projected for the year 2020, when more "flex fuel" vehicles, which can run on E85, will likely be in use. They estimated that vehicle emissions would be about 60 percent less than today, because automotive technology will likely continue to become cleaner over time. They investigated two scenarios, one that had all the vehicles running on E85 and another in which the vehicles all ran on gasoline.

Running a widely used, complex model involving over 13,000 chemical reactions, they did repeated simulations at different ambient temperatures for the two scenarios, each time simulating a 48-hour period. They used the average ozone concentrations during each of those periods for comparison.

They found that at warm temperatures, from freezing up to 41 degrees Celsius (105.8 F conversion), in bright sunlight, E85 raised the concentration of ozone in the air by up to 7 parts per billion more than produced by gasoline.
At cold temperatures, from freezing down to minus 37 degrees Celsius, they found E85 raised ozone concentrations by up to 39 parts per billion more than gasoline.

"What we are saying with these results is that you see an increase," Ginnebaugh said. "We are not saying that this is the exact magnitude you are going to get in a given urban area, because it is really going to vary from city to city depending on a lot of other factors such as the amount of natural vegetation, traffic levels, and local weather patterns."

Ginnebaugh said the results of the study represent a preliminary analysis of the impact of E85. More data from studies of the emissions of flex fuel vehicles at various temperatures would help refine the estimates, she said.

###

Paul Livingstone contributed to the study while he was a postdoctoral researcher in civil and environmental engineering. He now works for the California Air Resources Board.

Contact: Louis Bergeron
louisb3@stanford.edu
650-725-1944
Stanford University
**********************

So much for corn vs. coal.

Time to start over kids-
Coal is nonrenewable, and very very dirty. Our usage must absolutely be kept in check; and ultimately done away with.

$ave your dollars spent on gas and insurances.
Can anyone say SUNSHINE, bicycles, shanks mare, and public transportation?
It's about time.

XOXO
Me

21 comments:

  1. Sunshine.

    It's convertible to both electricity and hydrogen. Electricity is easier and safer. I'm for THAT.

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  2. I say we go for the Flinstones cars......it worked for them! ;P

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  3. We need to remember that any study can prove anything we want it too

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  4. So, you're in favor of gasoline, diesel, and coal?

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  5. I'll buy an electric car when they lower the price...

    Walking and riding the bus... Done those for years! ;-)

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  6. Sunshine it is! I hear you, and raise you ten sunbeams!

    XOXO
    me

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  7. hehehe
    Think of the calloused feet we'd all have!

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  8. That's true?! hehehe

    I once did a study that showed people that didn't care to read the whole thing would post a reply just like that.

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  9. Not me. I will save my $ for a few horses and their upkeep.
    Those dang little cars are unsafe in any kind of weather, and I've already lost one cousin as she was passed by a semi...

    Besides, those cars wouldn't even get me to town, (let alone Minnesota, Sault Ste Marie, and/or Alabama).

    When we lived in the townhouses in Green Bay, I would even walk to the grocer. I still have the pull wire cart that I used back then.

    AND, I might add the health benefits were wonderful too! I swear sometimes people forget what their damn legs are for...

    THEN, there are people like me that took my own abilities for granted for half a century and now I can't walk where I would wish to...
    The back forty comes to mind.

    XOXO
    me

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  10. No easy solution here... Until the people of this nation realize that the solutions are not limited to strickly this or that.

    To say using bicycles or horses or public transportation is a solution.. it is not.. these things are not viable for many. Look at yourself.. Can you reasonably use these modes of transportation? for say going to the store?

    The problems I see are too many deciding that nope cant do this because its too expensive or cant do that because its too dangerous or nope cant do this because it will take too long to do. Got a bunch of hypocrites calling for change yet they block every idea that comes that way.

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  11. Bordering on laziness Sweet Beep-

    FYI- There was a time that I was raising children on my own and my car did not always run. There were plenty of times that I would bike to my 4x weekly softball games and events.
    Can I say this is an option for me now? Of course not, but I am disabled too.
    There are plenty of people that make these stupid little runs to/from the corner market to get a st00pid gallon of milk! Why not walk instead of firing up a car? Wouters is a mile down the road from here. What a great cardiac workout. People need to learn is all. And they need to respect their bodies as well. Can I do that now? Again, no I cannot.

    Then again, as you well know, I do not go anywhere unless it is necessary.
    Could I rideshare to the store? Yes. With just a simple touch of planning, there is nothing I need that cannot wait until Kelli does her shopping. Or Casey. Or Randy.
    I am guessing that this could then be applied to everyone.
    Think of the savings, not only from a money standpoint, but from an ecological one as well. (And if we do not apply the practicality of the ecological standpoint now, we will pay for that too later on).

    People are in way too much of a hurry these days. In reality, I use my car for Minnesota trips. Anything else really can wait.

    Gone are they days of a casual Sunday drive for us all. Or at least they should be.

    You are correct- We don't need the hypocrites-

    What we need is more common sense and less waste.
    If we truly had these things, we would need no legislation of the above.

    XOXO
    Me

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  12. GRrrrrr I hate that idea! Everyone wants the government to regulate... its time for the government to step out.. those people have no clue as to what is going on in the real world .. they are far too removed.

    Then again out of the other side of my mouth.. due to greed and power hungry people.. someone does have to regulate.

    I do agree that many make unnecessary trips to places that they could easily walk or ride a bike.. too many depend on that ride... but like myself.. I live 30 miles to the store.. no easy bike ride and frankly Im not walking it. We do often let neighbors know.. going here you need something? They do the same... You learn to plan the trip and make lists.

    Living in Texas.. not gonna walk or ride a bike there either.. the neighborhood was not such that it would be safe. Then you have folks who let their dogs run free and not all these animals are friendly. The public transportation there.. actually sucks.. although when I lived in SanAntonio it was not unusual to see me riding the bus to where ever I was going.

    Unfortunately times they have changed, lots of perverts and nuts out there ready to pounce on someone alone.


    So I still say.. although maybe for some this is possible.. it is not a viable solution.

    Electric cars many say.. but there again.. first of all your still using electricity and for a majority of this nation that means coal plants. Secondly.. I understand they dont do well in ice and snow, again a very large portion of the US is covered in ice and snow during at least 3 months of the year.
    I dunno .. what about hydrogen cars?????? Water as a by product.. could be a good thing. The new bio diesels is a good thing too. Utilizing all the old cooking oil.. or burnt oil from service stations.

    I think the solutions need to start with building nuclear plants and utilizing the sun and the wind... Unfortunately these are being nay sayed by the environmentalists and farmers that do not want to lose their land and those that say not in my backyard.... so the plants will be at least 100 years before anyone will decide .. hey we need to build some of these plants.

    If they would utilize what is currently here and viable and in the mean time start some of these other options.. then in 10 to 20 years we could actually have some of the more environmentally friendly options online.

    My problem with it all.. is that you cant shut down coal plants until you have a viable solution to replace them with. So to tax them out of business to my way of thinking is just insane. All that will do is make our utility bill so that many will not be able to afford electricity, most especially those on a limited income.


    Im not as smart as some of these engineers but seems to me... someone should be able to come up with a common sense approach that would be viable and environmentally friendly.



    But then again I dont believe in the Global warming issue either... I do believe we are wasteful and nasty people.. not just Americans but all over the world. I do believe we cant help but be affecting the planet.. but I refuse to believe that its all America's fault. I will not listen to some hypocrite flying his plane all over the US and who knows where telling me that he can fly but I need to ride a bike. That just makes me crazy. The whole buying credits is probably the biggest scam I have ever seen... Maybe thats the business I need to get into.. because it sure seems quite lucrative.


    ooops I think im ranting on your page.. sorry

    later gator!

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  13. That is how Kelli and I do it all the time.
    And besides, it gives us a reason to be able to see each other at times that perhaps we normally would not.

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  14. As it is everywhere Sweetie-
    I always think about the other 60% when I hear that 40% of all drug crime occurs in the cities.

    In Green Bay, they have stepped up patrols of these neighborhoods. While there is a window of safe/unsafe (again how it is everywhere), the foot patrols have brought down lots of complaints.

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  15. Oops. I forgot to do this one.

    I have no idea where you got the idea to hate what I had said?
    Or where I would have been asking for more regulation?

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  16. The only good response to this is Wills first comment:

    "Sunshine. It's convertible to both electricity and hydrogen."

    Readily available most days... And someone had better start stepping up our ability to convert this to electricity.
    Instead of just soaking it up in our skin, and letting the rest 'work' for only 1/2 day, we need to be able to utilize every little sunbeam that comes our way.

    The farmers cannot lose any more farmland.
    It is their living! It is what feeds not only their cattle and livestock, but their families as well. Yet even here, there was still space that could have accommodated a wind turbine, or solar panels.
    Where there is a will...

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  17. It should surely not be 10 or 20 years!!!
    Simply because there are MANY options already here- We are not making use of them. From on wind to solar to God knows what, we are leaving alternatives behind because of some warped political 'tone' that we may/may not like.

    Now as far as Global warming goes.
    As a concept I do agree it is happening. I do NOT agree that the earth cannot heal itself as there have been zillions of these phases since time immemorial, and here we are.
    And remember, even through those phases, the polar bear survived. The dinosaur did not.
    The dinosaur being killed by the fallout of the meteorite, and not having sunlight for too long.

    Will I help to reduce the use of fossil fuels? You bet I will. It is their removal and their abuse what gets us into these messes to begin with.

    Tax the coal companies out? Methinks that might be the only way, given that compared to nuclear energy, coal is worse in every respect.
    A report from last year also states that fly ash is more radioactive than nuclear waste. Go here to read that:
    http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste

    And here's a killer comment on coal: "the amount of energy contained in the radioactive materials in burnt coal is more than the chemical energy in the coal itself." (Things that make you go 'hmmm' right).

    As far as not being able to afford electricity- Again, in context you may be correct.
    But those of us that can should be throwing on a solar panel or a wind turbine (and there is potential to be paid for all the electricity you don't use). Thereby making it cheaper and affordable to those that do not have the money. The simple concept of "supply and demand".

    As far as the noise goes, have you ever talked to or visited someone who lives by the RR tracks? People get used to the sound and the vibration. That's a silly point for them to make.

    It all just boils down to our priorities in the end. I mean what would be more important in the end?


    Sweet Beep,
    Do not ever apologize for ranting on any of my posts. I happen to love people that make me think.

    XOXO
    me

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  18. Girl, did you open that can of worms again. LOL

    An interesting and thought provoking entry. BTW, I don't want a worm. LOL

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  19. Hi, I read almost the same research done on the woes of Coal...lol...guess it depends on who is doing the research and which Lobby they side with....Sounds to me like it is the Sun all the way. Now if we could come up with an affordable way to harness it.

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  20. Am thinking most everyone missed the 7 ppb (parts per billion), in the story.

    We already know how terrible coal is-
    Pa knew it way back when the coal furnace came out. (And that was in the mid 1960's).

    Still thinking SUNSHINE too!

    Solar panels are mighty efficient, but yes, tough to afford in the beginning.
    But we can't be sitting around saying "coulda, woulda, and shoulda" even 5 years from now.

    XOXO
    Me

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