Good Morning-
I have been reading with heightened interest, all of the opinions on the proposed "Community Center" in New York City.
I read this, this morning on Heidi's blog
I searched and found the original link online-
Most of your opinions have been "against" this proposed construction, on land that is owned by these people for many years.
I can only hope that, after you read this, you will be able to make a more highly intelligent and informed opinion...
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Off-Ramp commentator Marc Haefele lived in New York City for many years, so he wasn't shocked that Muslims wanted to build a community center, and perhaps a mosque, near Ground Zero. After all, he knew they'd been a major part of that neighborhood since -- are you sitting down? -- 1870.
By Marc Haefele
In all the discussions and arguments brought regarding the proposed P51 Islamic Community Center's proximity to the city of the World Trade Center in downtown New York, I'm astonished to see that one important historical fact hasn't turned up. It's about time that it did.
It's that the controversial cultural center (not a mosque, although it may include one) is close to another important historical site, obliterated when the WTC was begun in 1967.
It was Manhattan's old Arab District, which flourished for nearly a century.
Yes, much of the region the P51's denigrators defend as sacred American ground, was, from about 1870 on, the home of many thousands of Middle Eastern immigrants -- largely Muslim.
This was "Little Syria," both an Arab ghetto and a popular tourist zone, which the Los Angeles Herald proclaimed in April 11, 1909 as having "the mystery of the Orient upon it."
(Photo: "A man, wearing a fez, selling drinks from an ornate, portable, samovar-like dispenser in the Syrian Quarter of New York City." US Library of Congress.)
Little Syria was frequented by the humble and the celebrities--including actor John Barrymore, who loved to eat at a place he'd persuaded the owner to rename "The Sheik," after the Valentino film.
Other popular restaurants included "The Nile," "Little Egypt," and "Lebanon." The coffee houses were renowned for their dense, aromatic brews. In 1941, the New York Times reported Little Syrians as "friendly; they readily enter into conversation with the visitor, to talk about their native lands and customs."
(Photo: Syrian children playing in New York street. US Library of Congress.)
A 1905 Baltimore Sun reporter noted, "troops of black-haired, olive-skinned children play in the streets, and lithe, slender and generally pretty mothers gossip in the doorways; the fruit stalls, bakeries and groceries are stocked with many things unfamiliar to the American eye and palate." Little Syria was so important a part of the New York ethnic scene for so long that it now seems incredible it's so completely forgotten.
The district ran down the Lower West Side, along Washington Street south to what is now Battery Park City. Unfortunately, it flourished before poor neighborhoods had any standing in urban planning. In 1940, the Brooklyn Battery tunnel erased much of it. By 1950, the West Side Highway (long since torn down) destroyed more of Little Syria.
When I showed up in the early 1960s, just a block or two remained--including Sahadi's market at 195 Washington Street, which had the best baklava and apricot leather in the city. As well as some wonderfully crafted musical instruments -- ouds and hourglass drums. In 1967 it vanished under the WTC jackhammers -- even the original streets are now gone. The old businesses moved to Brooklyn or died. And I moved away too.
(Sahadi's today. Flikr/Rachael Ash.)
Now, in another century, the tragedy of 9-11 is offered as an excuse to refuse some 700,000 New York Muslems their right to observe and celebrate their faith where they please.
* Freedom of Religion means nothing, of course, if it only applies to religions everyone approves of.
But there's another reason for P51 to be built where it's planned. It's that the location is so close to New York's lost but once vital Islamic-Middle Eastern past ... which the new center for an emerging new Islamic population cannot but serve to commemorate and recall to us.
(Marc Haefele is a literary and cultural commentator for KPCC's Off-Ramp.)Comments from the above article include:
# 1)
"Thank you for this! It needs to be part of the conversation, too. Even tho I don't believe that the "past life" of any particular piece of real estate gives any one group the right to claim it forever -- oh, let's say Jerusalem and the claims of Muslims, Jews and Christians -- Arab people from all over have been a part of cities in this hemisphere for a long time. They have just as much right to a place as any other of the emigrants and natives that make up this motley experiment of a country."
# 2)
"I cried on Sep.11,2001 and I cried after I read this article, both time I cried for the atrocities against humanity. I was in NYC on August 20,2010, nine years after the tragic incident of Sep. 11, I wanted to go to ground zero and pray for those who lost their lives and to see it for the first time with my in person. It shook me badly once again! It shook me even more when I saw those ignorant people who were demonstrating their freedom of speech, while asking to take away the right of Freedom of Religion of others. It was obvious that these people were ignorant about the history of little Syria. I stood right in front of those people between them and ground zero and looked in their eyes, with my head covered with hijab. I wanted them to see beyond my hijab that first and foremost I am a person too, and that it is my God given right to choose my belief and practice them, just like they do. I am not responsible for the Muslims who commit atrocities, just like I am not rewarded for other Muslim's good deeds.
I was saddened by the ignorance of those people who held the posters of " Islam is a cult"! Of what I ask?
Please do some research before you hold a poster like that. It only promotes more ignorance. This demonstration that I saw looked more like a political propaganda, not a 'freedom to speak' practice.
Love all hate none."
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Is this irony, or just plain sad? Because there really is no difference, is there?
What's the point in all the fighting?
"Love all hate none."
I believe that commenter is correct. (Funny, that's what my "God" says too).
XOXO
Me
this is great :)
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteThank you! I borrowed it from a very intelligent lady!
XOXO
Me
:)
ReplyDeleteHere is another political cartoon, semi-related anyway-
ReplyDeleteSad, but true.
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Talk about doublespeak...
XOXO
Me
Very interesting information.
ReplyDelete"Freedom of Religion means nothing, of course, if it only applies to religions everyone approves of."
That is so very true....ran into a very bigoted, racist idiot in the Air Force that this defined....
interesting
ReplyDeleteLove this post...I cant see it posted enough!
ReplyDeleteYou are right Sweet Donna;
ReplyDeleteIt is information like this that NEEDS to go 'viral', isn't it?
I loved that line also.
Want bigoted and racist? http://patriot01.multiply.com/journal/item/141
I blocked this guy already, thanks to my Snotball.
XOXO
Me
ReplyDeleteSweet Boo!
I think it is also-
Please feel free to copy/paste and reuse.
XOXO
Me
Me neither Sweetie!
ReplyDeleteDo the copy/paste thing and help me get this 'out there' please?
XOXO
Me
The supervisor we had to deal with called us "godless heathens" when he found out we were American Indian......attitude did a 180.....
ReplyDeleteI ran into one but he was army
ReplyDeleteInteresting!
ReplyDeleteI wonder if getting educated will change the views of people from either side who insist on being one-sided. God made this earth for all humans to share with each other. When those land masses were fewer, those who became known as Indians walked over here by way of the Bering Straight and were the first to settle this land here. Then....the later European Immigrants....our Pilgrims....came over and took that land from them. The Indians were here first and those later immigrants brought disease and war while stealing land from the original settlers. And the Indians only claim to the land was being here to care for the earth gently and in that way the earth would give back and take care of them. Those Pilgrims surely did mess up big-time when they came here with their religion views and then started breaking the rules of the 10 Commandments. Maybe there was great lack of understanding, tolerance and compassion back then which caused a lot of problems, but still....they Killed, they stole and they coveted that which belonged to another. Kinda like stealing from God, isn't it. Will we, the children of God....ever learn?
I know we have fear in our hearts from the extremest and the terrorist of this world and that in itself is what makes us proceed in anything with caution when it comes to individuals or groups who are different than ourselves. There is always "somebody" waiting in the darkness to stab us in the back. And that somebody can be anybody of any color or race.
This is great!!!! I never knew this, although I heard that the keystone from a Syrian Catholic church was found when they were taking down the ruins of the WTC. That stone was returned to a parish in Brooklyn.
ReplyDeleteDitto. Wasn't going to repost, feeling I was stealing the idea from Jan Blondino, who also posted it... but since it's public domain, I think I shall. Needs to be read by a wide audience. Thanks Flint
ReplyDelete@zusiqu.....WOW.
ReplyDeleteVery insightful commentary by Keith Olberman.
ReplyDeleteI heart Keith Olberman
ReplyDeleteEloquent and passionate....not to mention he made sense.
ReplyDeleteI like the humanity of this piece. What's really needed is to put this under the noses of the kind of people who need to read it... but, as I asked where I just posted this, those who don't want to hear it, won't? Sad but true.
ReplyDeleteThat is so very true. I posted Keith's video and only those who already agreed pressed PLAY.
ReplyDeleteI didn't. Might do... am as wary of Olbermann as I would be of Beck. As non partisan as I can be... but to tell you the truth, I'm not American either, so I don't really care. Giving the video a spin now...
ReplyDeleteOk, glad I did. That's really good ;)
ReplyDeleteFor the most part, Keith does his homework.
ReplyDeleteI usually try to stay out of politics but I am so fed up with the lies, misconceptions, name calling, etc.....he made some really good points.
ReplyDeleteI have noticed that the more education a person has, the less likely they are to be ultra conservative and bigoted.
ReplyDeleteThe racist bigot we encountered in the Air Force was a MSgt. working on his Master's Degree....
ReplyDeleteWell.... there are always exceptions to the rule, I guess.
ReplyDeleteI love this post! I read the Little Syria blog last night and thought it was great, but I also love the way you've contextualized it and added commentary.
ReplyDeleteI have never found that to be true. I think bigotry is pretty much not linked to education.
ReplyDeleteMy father held multiple phds and was one of the most bigoted people I have ever known.
My father in law never graduated the 8th grade and was also one of the most bigoted people I have ever known.....
I have seen bigots of every race, creed, and education level. I think that it is tied to many things... and many reasons. none of which are right but they persist.
ReplyDeleteThat is just SO wrong!
I mean I am glad he did a 180, still he just went further on down the line to allow his prejudices to then harm someone else.
Sad that.
Maybe I don't get out enough- Maybe it's the way we were raised, but honestly I don't see as much of this racist crap, (and that IS what it is), up in these parts.
ReplyDeleteNot to say it isn't there- Just that I don't see it.
If there is any that I do see it is to the Native Americans, even though Oneida is a very large SELF~SUSTAINING tribe.
I am not Oneida, but boy once people are on them, they stick like glue. (I read these comments from the newspaper).
ReplyDeletePlease feel free to share on your own site- and to forward through your email too.
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely welcome!
And to thank you too for stopping by.
I am sure would "wow" too, but damn this dialup...
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteHi RP!
Glad you came by!
Please do not hesitate to send this out within your email contacts-
God knows we get enough of the other way around.
Sooner or later, someone will forward it to someone else who will make a little difference.
If you have a heart for others, (which I believe you do); IMHO, you can't stay out of politics.
ReplyDeleteAt least not for the next 2 years, 50 days.
Too many people are being gagged with mis/disinformation that it boggles the mind.
That said, it is the middle class that will suffer... or be gone by then.
It has been my experience of late that the Christian, older, richer, and predominantly male (and chauvinist), population posts more bigoted and untrue things than others.
ReplyDelete(Maybe it's 'us' that are prejudiced then)?
XOXO
me
ReplyDeleteHow old was he?
ReplyDeleteRight you are- Too few and far between for my liking;
And note please I did not say every older man either.
Thank you so much!
ReplyDeleteAlthough the very best of all the commentary comes right here- in the comments section!
I do have the very 'bestest' friends of all!
;-)
It has TONS to do with how people were raised, Pea.
ReplyDeleteThe lack of intelligence is not indicative of any 'higher' education.
That, simply because we get out of an education only what we are willing to learn in the first place.
Most of the older generations have had a packs and oodles of lies and prejudice drummed into their psyches since they were even old enough to understand.
well yes and no. my father was certainly not raised to be prejudiced and he is the only one in the family who is.
ReplyDeleteI think prejudice can be learned anywhere and can come from anywhere.
I was not implying that intelligence and education were the same thing, I was attempting to refute the comment about "education".
Bigotry is its own kind of ignorance.
He said WAY too much for me to repeat but the points that are on the top of my head are:
ReplyDelete* You can't see the new Muslim building from ground zero.
* It isn't a mosque - mosques are ONLY for worship. It is to be a Muslim community center that has basketball court and a cooking school. Only the top 2 floors of the 13 floor building will be used for prayer.
* The building has sat empty since 9/11 - so have many other damaged buildings nearby. The Muslims got it relatively cheaply because of that. If it is so dang important for Christians to occupy that building, they have had plenty of time to show up and buy the building.
I really couldn't say....if I had to venture a guess that he would have been somewhere around 40 at the time.
ReplyDeleteI know people have real strong feelings on both sides of this issue but . . . yawn . . . if I could have one wish it would be that they would get as fired up about some issues I think are important. Nevertheless, this is a well presented post Annie and I enjoyed reading both the post and the comments. I heart Keith Olbermann too!
ReplyDeleteThe best education you can have is, when you are finished you know you are ignorant.
ReplyDeleteamen!
ReplyDeleteI came here, via Sayntj...
ReplyDeleteI never knew about this historical fact...thank you for giving me a great history lesson...oh, the irony...
A very interesting read, as soon as you put up the link there I went to it before and then come back here and the thing is on here as well Hahaha
ReplyDeleteOdd one, your father...
ReplyDeleteWhile I do agree with your thoughts on where it came from, I believe that perhaps it needs to be something more substantive than 'anywhere'. Perhaps a very bad personal experience?
"BIGOTRY IS ITS OWN KIND OF IGNORANCE"
(It needed all caps, as you are SO right)!
ReplyDeleteThank you SO much for this recap!
To put the rest of it in context, and this bears repeating for all-
1. It is NOT a mosque!
2. It is NOT at ground zero!
Oh why are people so eager to buy lies?!
... And then put their own spin on top of those lies?!
XOXO
me
That is young enough to know better.
ReplyDelete(Only as a reference to "old dogs/ new tricks").
Thank you Mary!
ReplyDeleteYou are advanced. You are able to look forward- many people cannot do this, and still relive 9/11 every day with their obvious hatred toward ALL Muslims- and ANYone that is different in any way.
My question then becomes "Different from what?"
XOXO
Me
ReplyDeleteYou are also very very wise.
ReplyDeleteThank you SO much for stopping by!
XOXO
me
ReplyDeleteYou are hysterical Lester! hehehe
Have a good one!
No clue.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I could find in my father's case was a desire for wealth and he saw that as something only highly educated white men could achieve. So he became a racist against everyone else including his own people.....
Good thing I was raised by my dad who didn't see things that same way....
Sweet Pea;
ReplyDeleteYou are SO fortunate to have been raised right!!!! But you already know that!
Racism kills the human spirit.
(I don't know who said it, but if no one did you may quote me on that).
XOXO
Me
I am blessed.
ReplyDeleteAnd know my life would have been so totally different had I been raised any other way.
Just stopping by to reread this piece. Still love it.
ReplyDeleteGood Morning Say;
ReplyDeleteStop by and reread anytime!
*** Please do feel free to steal it, including my silly included thoughts; and get this out to the rest of America.
Since many many (too many) people are actually scared of 'any' Muslim that crosses their path, this still need to get out.
Although not 'in the news', per se, this is still a hot topic.
XOXO
Me